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Post by Commissioner on May 17, 2015 21:17:21 GMT -5
Interesting indeed. Here's a snippet: by my count, Michigan had 29 high school seniors sign D-I in 2013 udtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/post/159; 26 in 2014 udtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/post/2331; and 25 so far this year udtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/post/3839, with maybe 0-3 more potential D-I signings. Of course, this has to be even worse for Detroit, Oakland, and the MAC schools - they have fewer kids to choose from in state, and much less brand recognition when they go out of state. And I have to think it is generally easier to win a recruiting battle against another mid-major when you're the kid's hometown (or home state) school.
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Post by motorcitysam on May 18, 2015 0:42:38 GMT -5
Interesting indeed. Here's a snippet: by my count, Michigan had 29 high school seniors sign D-I in 2013 udtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/post/159; 26 in 2014 udtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/post/2331; and 25 so far this year udtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/post/3839, with maybe 0-3 more potential D-I signings. Of course, this has to be even worse for Detroit, Oakland, and the MAC schools - they have fewer kids to choose from in state, and much less brand recognition when they go out of state. And I have to think it is generally easier to win a recruiting battle against another mid-major when you're the kid's hometown (or home state) school. Yeah, the article presented this as a problem for Michigan State, when they are actually still doing very well in the recruiting game. They snagged kids out of Texas and Ohio for the 2015 class, along with Muskegon's Davis. Even missing out on Swanigan doesn't translate to recruiting trouble for Izzo. Your point is valid: The talent deficit in the state really hurts the mid majors. When I was a student in the 80s we used to say the Titans could compete in the MCC if they just got the 2nd team All PSL kids to play for U of D. Those days are long gone. Add that in to the fact that solid mid major recruits like Kenny Goins and Brent Hibbets decide to walk on at MSU and U of M, respectively, and it REALLY gets hard for the in state HL and MAC teams.
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Post by motorcitysam on May 31, 2015 20:53:21 GMT -5
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Post by Commissioner on Aug 7, 2015 20:10:02 GMT -5
Brian Bowen of Arthur Hill, the top Class of '17 player in the state, announces he is transferring to La Lumiere in Indiana. Again, here's a kid ranked in the top 10 nationally by pretty much all sources. Does he need the exposure? Is it clear that playing in Michigan is hindering his development?
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Post by rbj on Aug 7, 2015 20:28:06 GMT -5
Brian Bowen of Arthur Hill, the top Class of '17 player in the state, announces he is transferring to La Lumiere in Indiana. Again, here's a kid ranked in the top 10 nationally by pretty much all sources. Does he need the exposure? Is it clear that playing in Michigan is hindering his development? Very confusing why these kids continue to do this. It seems to only happen in Michigan, and its usually the top player in the state who decides to leave. I believe Eric Devendorf from Bay City was the first high profile player in Michigan to do it. He ended up at Syracuse, but he never made it to the NBA and probably would've still gotten a scholarship to Syracuse if he'd remained at Bay City. The only thing I can think of is that it is more a follow the leader type thing.
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Post by motorcitysam on Aug 10, 2015 15:15:37 GMT -5
Brian Bowen of Arthur Hill, the top Class of '17 player in the state, announces he is transferring to La Lumiere in Indiana. Again, here's a kid ranked in the top 10 nationally by pretty much all sources. Does he need the exposure? Is it clear that playing in Michigan is hindering his development? Very confusing why these kids continue to do this. It seems to only happen in Michigan, and its usually the top player in the state who decides to leave. I believe Eric Devendorf from Bay City was the first high profile player in Michigan to do it. He ended up at Syracuse, but he never made it to the NBA and probably would've still gotten a scholarship to Syracuse if he'd remained at Bay City. The only thing I can think of is that it is more a follow the leader type thing. I think RBJ1 is right. I think some player are going this route because it is just becoming the thing to do. "Hey, Miles Bridges and Josh Jackson went to prep school. I will, too!" And they parrot the same "rationale" they heard from others. "I can't develop here. I am not on TV here. I need more exposure. There are too many rules in the MHSAA. The competition in Michigan is weak." Etc, etc. Bowen just finished a season playing with Eric Davis, who found enough exposure in Saginaw to earn multiple high major offers and land at Texas. Together, and with other kids they grew up with, they played in front of their hometown friends and family, and took Arthur Hill to the state finals. Other than winning the championship, how does your high school basketball career get better than that? I don't think I have seen a single player who raised his status and recruitment by going the JUCO route. Bridges and Jackson were already seen as the elite in their classes nationally. Richie Lewis, a solid mid major guy, dropped off the map when he went to an out of state prep. Our own Anton Wilson didn't help himself going the prep path. AJ Turner reclassified and went prep, and ended up signing with Boston College, who had recruited and offered him while he was still in Warren, MI. Bakari Evelyn might be an exception. He didn't appear to be highly recruited when he left Michigan and played nine games at an Arizona prep school, but he did accept a scholarship with Nebraska. Still, he's unranked by ESPN and his only other offers were mid majors. He didn't exactly blow up with the move. I guess if so many players weren't staying at Michigan high schools and excelling, I would understand the prep school trend. But it still confuses me.
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Post by motorcitysam on Aug 11, 2015 11:08:58 GMT -5
This article was published online after Bowen made his decision to go prep. I don't agree with the writer's conclusions He makes the case that every talented player is leaving Michigan for prep schools out of state, which is obviously not true. He presents the prep school option in the most positive light, without presenting any of the drawbacks or bad outcomes we've seen and discussed. He also blames the MHSAA rules for the trend of players, leaving, which I don't think is accurate. As an example of the things I would disagree with in the article, he says that if Cass Tech wants to go play a team in California, they should be allowed to (it's currently not allowed due to the MHSAA limits on mileage for travel) and that they have the resources to do it. I disagree with both parts of that statement. I'm not sure what a trip to play a California team is actually going to accomplish for Cass, other than giving the players and coaches a trip to warm weather during the cold basketball season. And, Cass Tech does NOT have the resources for a trip like that. The writer must have missed that the DPS is under a financial manager and is running a budget deficit. Do we really want the scarce resources to be spent taking a team to California for a game? The MHSAA rules allow for travel to games in Chicago, Cleveland, Toledo, etc., if the goal is actually to increase competition levels. While I don't agree with the article, it's an interesting read for information's sake. michiganpreps.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1790174
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Post by Commissioner on Aug 11, 2015 11:48:53 GMT -5
Yeah, what's funny is that all these guys that are leaving were top rated recruits before they left. So it seems odd to say leaving is a necessity for their development or exposure. And of course he says nothing of any of the downsides of leaving for a "prep" school.
That said, MHSAA probably has to do something. This becomes self-perpetuating--because some of the top players leave, others decide to leave because their isn't enough competition. The TV rule is probably dumb in this day and age. Michigan also, I think, dictates a shorter season and fewer games than many states. That could be looked at. And I'd be open to careful adjustment of the travel rules. After all, Cass Tech's band can raise money to go to the Rose Bowl if they want. You could make a marginal change there, something like one trip outside the current radius every three years or something (top prevent a perpetual need to raise funds to make the trips for "competitive" reasons). You probably need some changes not only for substance but to sort of "send the message." I think most of the claims against Michigan HS ball and for the preps are bogus, but perception can become reality.
It's great that Cassius Winston is staying in state--I keep fearing we'll read of him leaving any day now.
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Post by motorcitysam on Aug 11, 2015 16:47:28 GMT -5
Yeah, what's funny is that all these guys that are leaving were top rated recruits before they left. So it seems odd to say leaving is a necessity for their development or exposure. And of course he says nothing of any of the downsides of leaving for a "prep" school. That said, MHSAA probably has to do something. This becomes self-perpetuating--because some of the top players leave, others decide to leave because their isn't enough competition. The TV rule is probably dumb in this day and age. Michigan also, I think, dictates a shorter season and fewer games than many states. That could be looked at. And I'd be open to careful adjustment of the travel rules. After all, Cass Tech's band can raise money to go to the Rose Bowl if they want. You could make a marginal change there, something like one trip outside the current radius every three years or something (top prevent a perpetual need to raise funds to make the trips for "competitive" reasons). You probably need some changes not only for substance but to sort of "send the message." I think most of the claims against Michigan HS ball and for the preps are bogus, but perception can become reality. It's great that Cassius Winston is staying in state--I keep fearing we'll read of him leaving any day now. All good points, Commish. The author of that article mentioned Jaire Grayer as a kid who went prep, which made me wonder: Where the heck is Grayer? He went prep, but I completely lost track of him once he left the state. He's a class of 2015 kid and I can't find any indication of him signing with anyone. He reportedly had a bunch of good mid major offers (see the linked article) including one from U of D, but I haven't heard a whisper about him in a long time. The author also could have mentioned that Billy Thomas went to prep school last Fall, and by January he was back home trying to get eligible to play for North Farmington, having wasted a year of his basketball career. Of course, that would have gone against the idea that going prep does so much for the players and fixes all that is wrong with Michigan basketball. highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/4501222594583756893/flints-jaire-grayer-decides-on-img-academy-in-florida-for-prep-school-basketball/
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Post by motorcitysam on Aug 11, 2015 17:46:43 GMT -5
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Post by Commissioner on Aug 11, 2015 17:50:26 GMT -5
Yeah, what's funny is that all these guys that are leaving were top rated recruits before they left. So it seems odd to say leaving is a necessity for their development or exposure. And of course he says nothing of any of the downsides of leaving for a "prep" school. That said, MHSAA probably has to do something. This becomes self-perpetuating--because some of the top players leave, others decide to leave because their isn't enough competition. The TV rule is probably dumb in this day and age. Michigan also, I think, dictates a shorter season and fewer games than many states. That could be looked at. And I'd be open to careful adjustment of the travel rules. After all, Cass Tech's band can raise money to go to the Rose Bowl if they want. You could make a marginal change there, something like one trip outside the current radius every three years or something (top prevent a perpetual need to raise funds to make the trips for "competitive" reasons). You probably need some changes not only for substance but to sort of "send the message." I think most of the claims against Michigan HS ball and for the preps are bogus, but perception can become reality. It's great that Cassius Winston is staying in state--I keep fearing we'll read of him leaving any day now. All good points, Commish. The author of that article mentioned Jaire Grayer as a kid who went prep, which made me wonder: Where the heck is Grayer? He went prep, but I completely lost track of him once he left the state. He's a class of 2015 kid and I can't find any indication of him signing with anyone. He reportedly had a bunch of good mid major offers (see the linked article) including one from U of D, but I haven't heard a whisper about him in a long time. The author also could have mentioned that Billy Thomas went to prep school last Fall, and by January he was back home trying to get eligible to play for North Farmington, having wasted a year of his basketball career. Of course, that would have gone against the idea that going prep does so much for the players and fixes all that is wrong with Michigan basketball. highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/4501222594583756893/flints-jaire-grayer-decides-on-img-academy-in-florida-for-prep-school-basketball/Grayer was first team all-state as a junior. I saw at least one place where he was listed as Class of '16. It could be an error, but perhaps he's decided that, IMG having done so much for his recruitment, he should take a post-HS "prep" year there.
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Post by Commissioner on Aug 11, 2015 17:56:32 GMT -5
Yeah, they're sold a pile of BS. Well, maybe it's not complete BS, but they're never told the downside. As you pointed out a while back, poor Josh Jackson, wasting what could be some of the best days of his life, away from family and friends, playing in empty gyms, no BMOC (because there is no "C", really). I think what we keep going back to is that it doesn't really seem to help any of these kids. Miles Bridges, Josh Jackson -- they're top 25 recruits anyway. I've not seen a kid raise his stock by going to a prep school instead of finishing high school at home.
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Post by Commissioner on Aug 16, 2015 20:04:59 GMT -5
Devon Daniels will be going to Prolific Prep next year, presumably never to be heard from again.
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Post by motorcitysam on Aug 17, 2015 1:04:08 GMT -5
Devon Daniels will be going to Prolific Prep next year, presumably never to be heard from again. So, here's a player from Kalamazoo, Michigan. His coaches and current teammates have helped him get from relative obscurity to gaining offers from Minnesota, DePaul, and Utah, as well as reported interest from Michigan and Michigan State. He's coming into a senior year where he is considered one of the best players in the state and his Kalamazoo Central team, coached by former Titan Ramsey Nichols, is expected to be very good again. In K'zoo he's a easy drive away from the U of M and Michigan State, programs from whom he no doubt wants to get offers. He's about three hours from DePaul, which means he's also staying on the radar of the staff there. And he gives all of that up to play second fiddle to Josh Jackson 3,000 miles from home. I just don't get it.
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Post by Commissioner on Aug 17, 2015 21:44:02 GMT -5
Yeah, what's funny is that all these guys that are leaving were top rated recruits before they left. So it seems odd to say leaving is a necessity for their development or exposure. And of course he says nothing of any of the downsides of leaving for a "prep" school. That said, MHSAA probably has to do something. This becomes self-perpetuating--because some of the top players leave, others decide to leave because their isn't enough competition. The TV rule is probably dumb in this day and age. Michigan also, I think, dictates a shorter season and fewer games than many states. That could be looked at. And I'd be open to careful adjustment of the travel rules. After all, Cass Tech's band can raise money to go to the Rose Bowl if they want. You could make a marginal change there, something like one trip outside the current radius every three years or something (top prevent a perpetual need to raise funds to make the trips for "competitive" reasons). You probably need some changes not only for substance but to sort of "send the message." I think most of the claims against Michigan HS ball and for the preps are bogus, but perception can become reality. It's great that Cassius Winston is staying in state--I keep fearing we'll read of him leaving any day now. All good points, Commish. The author of that article mentioned Jaire Grayer as a kid who went prep, which made me wonder: Where the heck is Grayer? He went prep, but I completely lost track of him once he left the state. He's a class of 2015 kid and I can't find any indication of him signing with anyone. He reportedly had a bunch of good mid major offers (see the linked article) including one from U of D, but I haven't heard a whisper about him in a long time. The author also could have mentioned that Billy Thomas went to prep school last Fall, and by January he was back home trying to get eligible to play for North Farmington, having wasted a year of his basketball career. Of course, that would have gone against the idea that going prep does so much for the players and fixes all that is wrong with Michigan basketball. highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/4501222594583756893/flints-jaire-grayer-decides-on-img-academy-in-florida-for-prep-school-basketball/Grayer committed today to George Mason. Absolutely, positively no way he could ever have gotten an offer like that staying in Michigan. Never in a million years.
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