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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 7:02:41 GMT -5
From this morning - the whole system is broken....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 7:33:10 GMT -5
And a new ranking of the transfers (the top 50 each of grad and sit out transfers) - some with their possible schools listed: We appear once on the grad list, which has been previously reported: 35) Dazon Ingram, 6-5, 210, G, Alabama Stats: 7.1 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.6 apg Scout’s take: “Big, long, strong athletic guard that needs to become a more consistent perimeter shooter. Can become a dynamic defender.” Schools: Western Kentucky, UCF, Detroit, Nebraska watchstadium.com/news/ranking-the-best-transfers-in-college-basketball-this-offseason-04-22-2019/
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Post by upbasketballfan on Apr 23, 2019 8:32:04 GMT -5
And a new ranking of the transfers (the top 50 each of grad and sit out transfers) - some with their possible schools listed: We appear once on the grad list, which has been previously reported: 35) Dazon Ingram, 6-5, 210, G, Alabama Stats: 7.1 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.6 apg Scout’s take: “Big, long, strong athletic guard that needs to become a more consistent perimeter shooter. Can become a dynamic defender.” Schools: Western Kentucky, UCF, Detroit, Nebraska I wonder why Corey Allen isn't on one of these lists? watchstadium.com/news/ranking-the-best-transfers-in-college-basketball-this-offseason-04-22-2019/
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Post by upbasketballfan on Apr 23, 2019 8:34:52 GMT -5
And a new ranking of the transfers (the top 50 each of grad and sit out transfers) - some with their possible schools listed: We appear once on the grad list, which has been previously reported: 35) Dazon Ingram, 6-5, 210, G, Alabama Stats: 7.1 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.6 apg Scout’s take: “Big, long, strong athletic guard that needs to become a more consistent perimeter shooter. Can become a dynamic defender.” Schools: Western Kentucky, UCF, Detroit, Nebraska watchstadium.com/news/ranking-the-best-transfers-in-college-basketball-this-offseason-04-22-2019/ I wonder why Corey Allen isn't on one of these lists?
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Post by ptctitan on Apr 23, 2019 8:36:21 GMT -5
I wonder why Corey Allen isn't on one of these lists? Is he transferring from Georgia State?
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Post by upbasketballfan on Apr 23, 2019 11:04:20 GMT -5
I wonder why Corey Allen isn't on one of these lists? Is he transferring from Georgia State? I have been trying to find where I saw that if Ray didn't get the GSU job, Corey would be transferring with immediate eligibility if GSU granted a release.
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Post by Commissioner on Apr 23, 2019 11:38:57 GMT -5
To my knowledge he's not entered the "transfer portal," and though a waiver is not inconceivable, there's no particular reason he'd get a waiver even if he did.
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Post by Commissioner on Apr 23, 2019 11:43:27 GMT -5
From this morning - the whole system is broken.... As I noted in a recent post, if you take out the grad transfers, the issue isn't that big--the numbers are being vastly inflated by guys who are simply dropping out of college ball or dropping down to lower divisions. That used to happen--we just didn't call them transfers back then. There probably is some increase even in those ranks this year, because you can now enter the "portal" without prior discussion with your school. We may see a few more guys than usual end up pulling a McFolley-returning to their original school. That will probably be less common after a year or two of the new system. In sum, I disagree that "the whole system is broken." It's really just the grad transfer rule. However, though still rare, the growing tendency of P6 schools to poach players after a solid mid-major freshman year is disturbing. But that's going to be an even tougher fix.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 12:14:31 GMT -5
I agree that the grad transfer rule needs to be amended, whether it's taking away a future scholarship if the player doesn't graduate within two years or taking away a second year of the scholarship as if he were a sit out transfer, or whatever idea slows the wild free agency with little apparant thought being given to the player being an actual grad student. With the sit out transfers, it's discouraging as a fan of college basketball to see the little guys, the mid and low majors, lose good players, some of whom they've scouted as diamond in the rough, just because, in essence, they've done too good of a job helping these kids (for example, Eric Williams). Why is Kevin McAdoo transferring from EMU - I can't imaging him moving up, but I've been wrong plenty times before. Maybe it really isn't that bad and social media just makes it seem like it's happening on a wider scale, but the little guys and their fans almost always seem to be the one's suffering. I predict that it's going to reach a tipping point (maybe as soon as this year), more and more of those players in the portal will start returning back to where they came. The grass isn't always greener for everyone....
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Post by motorcitysam on Apr 23, 2019 17:45:30 GMT -5
I agree that the grad transfer rule needs to be amended, whether it's taking away a future scholarship if the player doesn't graduate within two years or taking away a second year of the scholarship as if he were a sit out transfer, or whatever idea slows the wild free agency with little apparant thought being given to the player being an actual grad student. With the sit out transfers, it's discouraging as a fan of college basketball to see the little guys, the mid and low majors, lose good players, some of whom they've scouted as diamond in the rough, just because, in essence, they've done too good of a job helping these kids (for example, Eric Williams). Why is Kevin McAdoo transferring from EMU - I can't imaging him moving up, but I've been wrong plenty times before. Maybe it really isn't that bad and social media just makes it seem like it's happening on a wider scale, but the little guys and their fans almost always seem to be the one's suffering. I predict that it's going to reach a tipping point (maybe as soon as this year), more and more of those players in the portal will start returning back to where they came. The grass isn't always greener for everyone.... Places like Verbal Commits have been counting transfers the same way for a few years now, and the number keeps growing quickly, so I don't think it is just the way they count transfers that makes it seem like it is growing. The scenario of a player transferring midway through his freshman year used to be very rare, now we read about several of those per year. I think number of players transferring multiple times in their career is growing, and more and more of those are not grad transfer related (see Charlie Moore and KJ Lawson transferring from Kansas this year). Scout, my concern is the same as yours: mid major programs are being turned into farm systems for high majors. I don't know what the fix is for that. High majors are now reaching down to grab freshmen mid major guards, and that used to never happen, especially for a guy like the kid from OU who averaged 8 points per game. Desmond Cambridge, a sophomore guard from Brown, transferred and has narrowed his list to Vanderbilt and Virginia Tech. He's a good player who averaged 16 points per game for Brown, but that kind of player didn't often move the high major needle in years past. In announcing his transfer, Cambridge's statement thanked his coach at Brown "for being willing to take a chance on me." I'm sure the coach appreciated that comment as Cambridge gave him a figurative kick in the groin by transferring. If I was a mid major coach, I'd make sure JUCO players are an even bigger part of my recruiting plan. You won't lose them as grad transfers and most high majors still don't like to hold two years of scholarship for one year of play.
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Post by motorcitysam on Apr 24, 2019 13:48:09 GMT -5
One of the more surprising transfer situations this off season has been the decisions by brothers Sam and Joey Hauser to leave Marquette. The Golden Eagles faded down the stretch but still finished second in the Big East and made the NCAA tournament. Sam, a 6-8 junior averaged 15 points and 7 rebounds per game. Freshman Joey averaged 10 and five. Both shot over 40% from three point range. Seems like a great situation, and expectations were higher for next season for team success, so their transfer surprised a lot of people.
Commentary from people covering the team indicates that the announced return of leading Markus Howard for his senior year was what drove the brothers to transfer. Apparently they were looking forward to having the spotlight, and Howard is unquestionably the star of the team. The brothers want to stay together and are planning visits to Wisconsin, Iowa, Virginia and Michigan State.
Used the be that a situation like Marquette would have been in was the kind of situation players were looking for. As Marvin put it, "Things ain't what they used to be."
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Post by Commissioner on Apr 24, 2019 14:44:01 GMT -5
One of the more surprising transfer situations this off season has been the decisions by brothers Sam and Joey Hauser to leave Marquette. The Golden Eagles faded down the stretch but still finished second in the Big East and made the NCAA tournament. Sam, a 6-8 junior averaged 15 points and 7 rebounds per game. Freshman Joey averaged 10 and five. Both shot over 40% from three point range. Seems like a great situation, and expectations were higher for next season for team success, so their transfer surprised a lot of people. Commentary from people covering the team indicates that the announced return of leading Markus Howard for his senior year was what drove the brothers to transfer. Apparently they were looking forward to having the spotlight, and Howard is unquestionably the star of the team. The brothers want to stay together and are planning visits to Wisconsin, Iowa, Virginia and Michigan State. Used the be that a situation like Marquette would have been in was the kind of situation players were looking for. As Marvin put it, "Things ain't what they used to be." Yes, historically, "Markus Howard is coming back" means they're even more excited and expect to be in contention for a national title (all the "super early" predictions I was seeing had Marquette in the top 10). Now that means flee the coop.
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Post by motorcitysam on Apr 24, 2019 17:22:09 GMT -5
One of the more surprising transfer situations this off season has been the decisions by brothers Sam and Joey Hauser to leave Marquette. The Golden Eagles faded down the stretch but still finished second in the Big East and made the NCAA tournament. Sam, a 6-8 junior averaged 15 points and 7 rebounds per game. Freshman Joey averaged 10 and five. Both shot over 40% from three point range. Seems like a great situation, and expectations were higher for next season for team success, so their transfer surprised a lot of people. Commentary from people covering the team indicates that the announced return of leading Markus Howard for his senior year was what drove the brothers to transfer. Apparently they were looking forward to having the spotlight, and Howard is unquestionably the star of the team. The brothers want to stay together and are planning visits to Wisconsin, Iowa, Virginia and Michigan State. Used the be that a situation like Marquette would have been in was the kind of situation players were looking for. As Marvin put it, "Things ain't what they used to be." Yes, historically, "Markus Howard is coming back" means they're even more excited and expect to be in contention for a national title (all the "super early" predictions I was seeing had Marquette in the top 10). Now that means flee the coop. Contrast that with the Spring of 1990. UNLV had just blown out Duke by 30 to win the national championship. Juniors Stacy "Plastic Man" Augmon and Larry "LJ Cool" Johnson were both guaranteed first round picks. No one would have blamed them for leaving. They both decided to stay for their senior years, because they knew they had a good chance to win a second national championship and they knew what back to back titles would mean for Coach Tarkanian and UNLV basketball history. They considered their teammates and coaches their family. They lost in the title game the next year to Duke, but I never heard a word of regret from either of them about coming back. I think about that and laugh at the "announcements" that freshman players make these days when they have been at a school for nine months and are transferring or going pro, and they talk about "Coach Blank has been like a father figure to me and I will always be part of the (whatever school) family. Once a (mascot) always a (mascot)!"
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Post by motorcitysam on Apr 25, 2019 13:50:12 GMT -5
Here's one of those transfers that has me scratching my head. Terrell Allen is transferring from UCF as a grad transfer. Allen was the starting point guard (he started every game) on a team that won 24 games and lost to Duke on a missed tip in at the buzzer, averaging 7 points and 4 assists per game. He's playing for a respected coach in Johnny Dawkins. What is he looking for? It's what all the cool kids do. Allen is going to transfer to Georgetown. So, he'll be in a high major program, but the Hoyas are bringing back four underclassmen guards, including two guys who started this past year as freshmen. Maybe he'll surprise me, but I don't see him playing much next season. Simply for basketball reasons, I don't see the upgrade.
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Post by Commissioner on Apr 25, 2019 15:09:08 GMT -5
I agree that the grad transfer rule needs to be amended, whether it's taking away a future scholarship if the player doesn't graduate within two years or taking away a second year of the scholarship as if he were a sit out transfer, or whatever idea slows the wild free agency with little apparant thought being given to the player being an actual grad student. With the sit out transfers, it's discouraging as a fan of college basketball to see the little guys, the mid and low majors, lose good players, some of whom they've scouted as diamond in the rough, just because, in essence, they've done too good of a job helping these kids (for example, Eric Williams). Why is Kevin McAdoo transferring from EMU - I can't imaging him moving up, but I've been wrong plenty times before. Maybe it really isn't that bad and social media just makes it seem like it's happening on a wider scale, but the little guys and their fans almost always seem to be the one's suffering. I predict that it's going to reach a tipping point (maybe as soon as this year), more and more of those players in the portal will start returning back to where they came. The grass isn't always greener for everyone.... Places like Verbal Commits have been counting transfers the same way for a few years now, and the number keeps growing quickly, so I don't think it is just the way they count transfers that makes it seem like it is growing. The scenario of a player transferring midway through his freshman year used to be very rare, now we read about several of those per year. I think number of players transferring multiple times in their career is growing, and more and more of those are not grad transfer related (see Charlie Moore and KJ Lawson transferring from Kansas this year). Scout, my concern is the same as yours: mid major programs are being turned into farm systems for high majors. I don't know what the fix is for that. High majors are now reaching down to grab freshmen mid major guards, and that used to never happen, especially for a guy like the kid from OU who averaged 8 points per game. Desmond Cambridge, a sophomore guard from Brown, transferred and has narrowed his list to Vanderbilt and Virginia Tech. He's a good player who averaged 16 points per game for Brown, but that kind of player didn't often move the high major needle in years past. In announcing his transfer, Cambridge's statement thanked his coach at Brown "for being willing to take a chance on me." I'm sure the coach appreciated that comment as Cambridge gave him a figurative kick in the groin by transferring. If I was a mid major coach, I'd make sure JUCO players are an even bigger part of my recruiting plan. You won't lose them as grad transfers and most high majors still don't like to hold two years of scholarship for one year of play. Actually, Sam, the number isn't growing quickly and hasn't for a few years. Here are the numbers from Verbal Commits: 2019- 728 (to April 25) 2018- 877 2017- 894 2016- 799 2015- 831 2014- 753 2013- 672 2012- 577 2012 is the first year that VC kept track. I don't know where the number of transfers were in late April of past years, but usually by now (I think) most guys who are leaving have made that announcement. My guess is that the numbers were growing fast from around 2010 through 2015, but I would still believe that part of this was merely the result of increased efforts to record all those who drop out of programs or drop down to D-3, juco, or other lower ranks--in other words, due in part to more transfers, but in part simply to more reporting of the category that I generally don't think should count as "transfers." And then the grad transfers, who probably account for most of any growth since. Again, I don't deny that it is an issue, and I think the grad transfer thing is especially problematic. I agree with others that this is harming mid-majors. But the sport really needs to move beyond the "it's out of control! at this rate in 10 years 102% of all players will be transferring!" phase and start looking hard at the issue, why it has happened, and what, if anything, should or can be done. The problem, I guess, is that there's not much we fans can do but complain, and the NCAA either doesn't know what to do, can't do it, or doesn't want to do it. By the way, I'm not suggesting you're into such alarmism. But you see how such overstatements filter down--even a sober, fact-based guy like you just assumes that the number is still growing sharply, when in fact it seems to have leveled off about 5 years ago.
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