|
Post by Commissioner on Jul 9, 2020 10:28:47 GMT -5
ptc, you’re arguing about the facts and data. I mostly (but not completely) agree with what you’re saying. The problem, as I suspect you know, is that it’s public perception and the narrative relayed by media that now controls these decisions. It’s a really bad look for a college to say either (1) our students need to wear masks and we restrict their travel, but we will allow our athletes to travel and compete in physical games, or (2) the Ivy League has determined that it’s not safe to conduct athletics this fall, but we think they are wrong. Its also really bad when the nightly news every evening just talks about COVID. I don’t see how colleges can carry on when the national mood and morale is this bad. On point one, most universities have already set the restrictions on campus this fall. It’s set. On point two, which just occurred, it’s now only a matter of time until college athletics are canceled this year. The only question is, which is the next domino to fall? I wouldn’t be surprised if Berkeley announced any day that they will not compete in fall sports and then the PAC 12 is shut down by next week, As to your argument about the vaccines never being 100% effective, that’s not the issue. Americans are deciding that the current level of risk associated with COVID is unacceptable. Perhaps they are wrong in that judgement and perhaps that conclusion has been reached by a slanted media, but that’s where we are. There will be no college athletics this year. I would disagree just on this: "Americans are deciding that the current level of risk associated with COVID is unacceptable." I'm not at all sure that that is true. I think it is better to say that the cultural elite has made that decision. That elite is largely in jobs that have not been as affected by the shutdowns; largely in crowded cities where the risk has been worse; and largely liberal and hence more risk averse (see my post above). We may never know if that judgment is right or wrong, but for practical purposes of college sports, what matters is that they've reached that decision.
|
|
|
Post by calihanmole on Jul 9, 2020 10:55:28 GMT -5
Commish, whether the American people made that decision or simply don’t have the motivation or power to fight back isn’t so much the issue - but I think you are right. The elites made the decision and unfortunately the game is over. It’ll be interesting regarding K-12 education. I’m sure the mostly liberal public school teachers will be pushing for remote learning (where they hand off most instruction to parents) but still demand 100% of their pay. Regarding universities, here’s what I know: being a university President, provost, or other high level decision maker is a great job. And, if you have a great job like that you want to keep it. Bringing back sports puts someone in a position of possibly being negligent or reckless with college kids. Right now presidents are trying to balance the number of alumni and students that want sports and normalcy against the public narrative (set by the elites) that it’s too dangerous to do so. The Ivy League decision yesterday was the tipping point, and you don’t get more culturally elite than those pricks.
|
|
|
Post by uofdfan1983 on Jul 9, 2020 11:00:44 GMT -5
Ah, our buddy the Mole. Ever the optimist whether the topic is Titan Athletic Dept. personnel, Titan Recruiting, or the chance of playing college sports during the Pandemic. Makes me feel so warm and fuzzy to be around a guy who always looks at the cup as half full Then again, maybe I'd rather he pontificate on an issue where good ole U-D has little control instead of ones where we have considerable control. At least the negativity is not being directed towards our school and the ability of our coaches to recruit. I really hope he's wrong on the 2020-21 season so that our guys have the chance to hit the floor and prove him wrong (is that a double negative??)
|
|
|
Post by bigchuck on Jul 9, 2020 11:21:01 GMT -5
Commish, whether the American people made that decision or simply don’t have the motivation or power to fight back isn’t so much the issue - but I think you are right. The elites made the decision and unfortunately the game is over. It’ll be interesting regarding K-12 education. I’m sure the mostly liberal public school teachers will be pushing for remote learning (where they hand off most instruction to parents) but still demand 100% of their pay. Regarding universities, here’s what I know: being a university President, provost, or other high level decision maker is a great job. And, if you have a great job like that you want to keep it. Bringing back sports puts someone in a position of possibly being negligent or reckless with college kids. Right now presidents are trying to balance the number of alumni and students that want sports and normalcy against the public narrative (set by the elites) that it’s too dangerous to do so. The Ivy League decision yesterday was the tipping point, and you don’t get more culturally elite than those pricks. Mole, Despite my views of the subject and many facts that do support resuming life as we knew it I think your post is spot on. My dilemma now is how do I chose to support those sports that I have in the past when they will not have a season. Do I reduce my support since there will not be expenses that I normally contributed for? I know that the financial impact probably requires greater contributions, not less. Should I transfer the support to other areas of the University because there are other more important needs? Do I take those monies and support other causes that have serious needs due to the virus? Knowing what the right decision is and acting on it are two different things. I am having trouble with both. I know others are struggling with similar scenarios. No easy answers.
|
|
|
Post by titantarheel on Jul 9, 2020 12:18:08 GMT -5
Interesting survey results of AD's regarding the football season --> watchstadium.com/almost-75-of-fbs-ads-believe-college-football-will-be-delayed-07-08-2020/"Nearly three-fourths of the Football Bowl Subdivision athletic directors told Stadium they believe the college football season will be delayed and 36 percent predict the season will consist of only conference games because of COVID-19." Also of note, the ACC pushed back fall athletics until Sept 1 (for now). 37 people within UNC's football program have tested positive, and there are material numbers at other southern football programs. Time is on basketball season's side since it doesn't tip til November, but even still its easy to see how things continue to push back and the winter sports that start in Nov/Dec are in peril of starting on time or to start at all.
|
|
|
Post by calihanmole on Jul 9, 2020 12:33:15 GMT -5
Ah, our buddy the Mole. Ever the optimist whether the topic is Titan Athletic Dept. personnel, Titan Recruiting, or the chance of playing college sports during the Pandemic. Makes me feel so warm and fuzzy to be around a guy who always looks at the cup as half full Then again, maybe I'd rather he pontificate on an issue where good ole U-D has little control instead of ones where we have considerable control. At least the negativity is not being directed towards our school and the ability of our coaches to recruit. I really hope he's wrong on the 2020-21 season so that our guys have the chance to hit the floor and prove him wrong (is that a double negative??)
Yeah, really out of line to criticize this program given the past four years of success. What was I thinking? I hope I’m wrong about the cancellation of this season and Vowels’s total incompetence as well. If my pessimism is warranted and it’s the end of Titan athletics I guess I’ll just focus on rooting for my other alma mater, a P5 school, and you can flip through old U-D programs from the 70s.
|
|
|
Post by upbasketballfan on Jul 9, 2020 13:15:40 GMT -5
Ah, our buddy the Mole. Ever the optimist whether the topic is Titan Athletic Dept. personnel, Titan Recruiting, or the chance of playing college sports during the Pandemic. Makes me feel so warm and fuzzy to be around a guy who always looks at the cup as half full Then again, maybe I'd rather he pontificate on an issue where good ole U-D has little control instead of ones where we have considerable control. At least the negativity is not being directed towards our school and the ability of our coaches to recruit. I really hope he's wrong on the 2020-21 season so that our guys have the chance to hit the floor and prove him wrong (is that a double negative??)
Yeah, really out of line to criticize this program given the past four years of success. What was I thinking? I hope I’m wrong about the cancellation of this season and Vowels’s total incompetence as well. If my pessimism is warranted and it’s the end of Titan athletics I guess I’ll just focus on rooting for my other alma mater, a P5 school, and you can flip through old U-D programs from the 70s. I guess your true colors are finally showing. A lot of us knew what they were but now they are becoming clear. I was wondering when you were on Mackinaw if you followed or led by example. 1983 is an avid supporter of U of D. He support's the University thoroughly and should be commended for his efforts. He is one of the few who I feel will always be all in.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 16:24:16 GMT -5
The Big Ten, IF there's a football season, will play conference games only
|
|
|
Post by ptctitan on Jul 9, 2020 20:59:28 GMT -5
Commissioner - if universities are cautious institutions, then what criteria are they are using for their decisions? And what is the criteria for resuming games? And what is the criteria for resuming normal attendance at games? Because it seems to me that these administrators are not using any objective criteria. At what point will it be sufficiently safe? Everything seems ad hoc and based upon emotion.
|
|
|
Post by Commissioner on Jul 9, 2020 21:08:37 GMT -5
Commissioner - if universities are cautious institutions, then what criteria are they are using for their decisions? And what is the criteria for resuming games? And what is the criteria for resuming normal attendance at games? Because it seems to me that these administrators are not using any objective criteria. At what point will it be sufficiently safe? Everything seems ad hoc and based upon emotion. I don't disagree with you. Their risk aversion will make them keep moving toward tougher and tougher criteria to meet.
|
|
|
Post by udballer on Jul 9, 2020 22:27:53 GMT -5
I think it's borderline hilarious that some of you are attempting to argue with Mole on this one and pointing to some bias he may have. His entire argument is on point on this topic, whether you like it or not. Sports will be delayed (if not canceled)... even though you, I and Mole wish they weren't.
In my opinion, the reason for this isn't Mole predicting it. It's not liberal educators. It's not biased media outlets. Quite frankly, it's the American public's inability to go without... even for the greater good of the community. If only this virus was portrayed as what it actually was from the start... rather than being politicized and written off as a "hoax"...
|
|
|
Post by motorcitysam on Jul 10, 2020 8:03:28 GMT -5
I think it's borderline hilarious that some of you are attempting to argue with Mole on this one and pointing to some bias he may have. His entire argument is on point on this topic, whether you like it or not. Sports will be delayed (if not canceled)... even though you, I and Mole wish they weren't. In my opinion, the reason for this isn't Mole predicting it. It's not liberal educators. It's not biased media outlets. Quite frankly, it's the American public's inability to go without... even for the greater good of the community. If only this virus was portrayed as what it actually was from the start... rather than being politicized and written off as a "hoax"... This is the first time I can remember where a national health emergency was so politicized, and there were no national guidelines put out for everyone to follow. This whole "States are on their own approach" doesn't work. I know there are those who hate the idea of "Big Government", but this is exactly the type of situation where you need the government leading a national effort. I know Mole can have a pessimistic view on the Titan program, but I don't disagree with him on this. There is so much we still don't know about the Coronavirus.
|
|
|
Post by uofdfan1983 on Jul 10, 2020 9:01:08 GMT -5
I do appreciate Mole and Commish's understanding/explanation of the way Institutions of Higher Education operate and make decisions. I guess my point is just that in the end, "que sera, sera", as the old song goes, and it is truly out of our hands whether we play (or not) this season.
Sam is correct: there has been a lack of consistent messaging and leadership from our Federal Gov't on this Pandemic. And UDballer is correct when he is implying that the single most important thing we can do is NOT BE STUPID. In most work and personal environments, we can be safely smart. Not 100% safe but playing the odds towards safety and lack of spread. It's the mob scenes in bars and parks and lakes and (unbelievably) politic events that get us in trouble as a society and I don't know how you stop that. But at least the federal gov't should be consistent in its message that this is not smart behavior. Yes, I realize that sporting events fit into this same category, but if we weren't doing the mob scenes elsewhere right now the spread would be less and there would be more opening than closing going on across the country.
Back to something we can control: I don't know if there will be a season, or a partial season, or when it will start. But at least Titan Fans have HOPE for a brighter future. It can only go up for us, and it will. How far up remains to be seen, but I have to be an optimist or what's the point? I will say it till my last breathe: if Xavier, Dayton, Butler and LOYOLA (for Christ's sake) can do it, so can we.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 11:59:53 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by calihanmole on Jul 10, 2020 12:43:15 GMT -5
Making decisions to pull out of games in November based on what’s happening now in July seems like teams just don’t want to host the buy games without getting gate $. Although, I’m sure at least a few posters here will tell me that the stories about ICU beds running low in Florida is fake news. Let’s face it, teams went ahead and booked these noncon games because they hoped that things would get better. Things are not good enough to hold practices in October and games in November. They’re just not. Anyone who works at a university like I do and is receiving communication about campus rules this semester knows that. At this point the best thing would be for the NCAA to issue a blanket rule that no basketball team can practice until its school finishes the fall semester (at the earliest) and that we will do what we can to start Conference seasons in January and maybe allow each team 1 or 2 noncon games. That’s only IF it’s reasonable to do so based on where we are at Thanksgiving. Just rip it off like a bandaid.
|
|