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Post by udshawn on May 14, 2020 7:50:38 GMT -5
1) I have been a fan since birth. I am an alum. I was once on the TC board. 2) I am willing to be ostracized. Don't care.
Now that those are out of the way, it's time to be honest about the program and school in general. Most of you need to wake up. The school, aside from a few upcoming and well overdue cosmetics and upgrades, what significant changes or accomplishments has the school garnered? Particularly, with Athletics. Most of you seem content with how things are going and don't recognize how bad things are.
Oakland has past us. They did years ago. But most of you are in denial and don't care. We can't out recruit or beat them in any sport. We are consistently in the bottom half of all sports (sans the onesies and twosies like softball). Why are we not getting the local Detroit kids? Most of The recruits we are getting arent moving the throttle. Sorry. We used to average or were flush with 3 star recruits and some fours. Now we get 2s and projects.
Marketing. We sound like a damn hospital. I am tired of beating the dead horse, but aside from a couple of tunnel vision visionaries and/or chicken shit minded individuals, we are all tired of the name. Our rivals and other schools mock us. It's pathetic. Call me an a hole, but I will never call the school Mercy. My diploma from 2005 has Mercy on it, but I am contemplating taking white out to it. I hate Mercy in our name.
So I would be a bigger dB if I presented challenges without solutions, right?
Here is my solution. Demand. Demand change. Stop donating. Stop going to games. Just stop all together. Write letters to the trustees demanding change. I have written letters and a couple of my family members have as well. But the school needs to be inundated with letters that tells them how it is. Tells them that we demand better and that support is going to be with held until change is made, starting with going back to U of D.
Until this happens, until the school is completely hit in the mouth, they won't care. They need to completely fail for them to wake. What incentive do they have to change if you all keep sending checks and show support?
As for personnel. Girabaldi and Vowels both need to go. They are enablers to this mess.
Coach Davis. I love the Davis family. He isn't the problem. I believe he is being puppeteered and is getting frustrated with his bosses and takes it out on his team. Right, wrong, or indifferent, his resume speaks for itself and ours...speaks for itself. The pattern is contentive mindset, no goal setting, no vision, no set of standards.
So, again, if you want change, it's time let things fail. It's called tough love.
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Post by upbasketballfan on May 14, 2020 8:48:29 GMT -5
1) I have been a fan since birth. I am an alum. I was once on the TC board. 2) I am willing to be ostracized. Don't care. Now that those are out of the way, it's time to be honest about the program and school in general. Most of you need to wake up. The school, aside from a few upcoming and well overdue cosmetics and upgrades, what significant changes or accomplishments has the school garnered? Particularly, with Athletics. Most of you seem content with how things are going and don't recognize how bad things are. Oakland has past us. They did years ago. But most of you are in denial and don't care. We can't out recruit or beat them in any sport. We are consistently in the bottom half of all sports (sans the onesies and twosies like softball). Why are we not getting the local Detroit kids? Most of The recruits we are getting arent moving the throttle. Sorry. We used to average or were flush with 3 star recruits and some fours. Now we get 2s and projects. Marketing. We sound like a damn hospital. I am tired of beating the dead horse, but aside from a couple of tunnel vision visionaries and/or chicken shit minded individuals, we are all tired of the name. Our rivals and other schools mock us. It's pathetic. Call me an a hole, but I will never call the school Mercy. My diploma from 2005 has Mercy on it, but I am contemplating taking white out to it. I hate Mercy in our name. So I would be a bigger dB if I presented challenges without solutions, right? Here is my solution. Demand. Demand change. Stop donating. Stop going to games. Just stop all together. Write letters to the trustees demanding change. I have written letters and a couple of my family members have as well. But the school needs to be inundated with letters that tells them how it is. Tells them that we demand better and that support is going to be with held until change is made, starting with going back to U of D. Until this happens, until the school is completely hit in the mouth, they won't care. They need to completely fail for them to wake. What incentive do they have to change if you all keep sending checks and show support? As for personnel. Girabaldi and Vowels both need to go. They are enablers to this mess. Coach Davis. I love the Davis family. He isn't the problem. I believe he is being puppeteered and is getting frustrated with his bosses and takes it out on his team. Right, wrong, or indifferent, his resume speaks for itself and ours...speaks for itself. The pattern is contentive mindset, no goal setting, no vision, no set of standards. So, again, if you want change, it's time let things fail. It's called tough love, I just have a problem with the tough love. I think we are already on the bottom and to now sweep it in the sewer is not the answer. There is a correct time to pick it up and brush it off and this is it. I like this but I think we need to know where the bottom is and when to pick something up. I think we have bottomed and it is time for sustained support to lift this university up. If it drops further it might be gone permanently.
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Post by nctitan on May 14, 2020 9:04:11 GMT -5
Shawn, you can surely say that you are underwhelmed by Detroit Mercy’s athletic accomplishments compared to your expectations, but you also said you’re disappointed with the school in general. What accomplishments? you ask.
The first-time pass rate of accounting graduates who take the Certified Public Accounting (CPA) exam is the best in the nation.
Detroit Mercy’s SOA ranked No. 1 in The Top 10 Architecture Programs Most Hired From with undergraduate and graduate class size of 20-49 students. Schools ranked below Detroit Mercy in this category include Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Ohio State, Texas A & M and Clemson.
#45 in Best Value colleges. (UofM is #44) for US News and Report.
#179 of National Universities for US News and Report.
The $112 million capital campaign is a strong endorsement: money talks.
As far as athletics, you’re looking only at championships. However, all 17 University of Detroit Mercy athletic programs were above a 3.0 GPA during the 2020 spring semester; the combined GPA was 3.51. You also referred to recruiting. Well, in basketball the Detroit area is not what it used to be, so mining the area for players will not lead to a great program. And if you look beyond basketball, the school does a great job in bringing local student athletes into the school because those athletes want to get a Detroit Mercy education: engineering, nursing, five-year MBA. That is the essence of student athletics.
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Post by titantarheel on May 14, 2020 9:06:38 GMT -5
But most of you are in denial and don't care. To apply the Jesuit approach of being contemplatives in action, please discuss...Can one be in denial about the state of the university, if one doesn't care? Hmmm.
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Post by calihanmole on May 14, 2020 10:29:48 GMT -5
About a week ago I decided to take some time off the boards. The frustration with this school and team hit a peak for me, and I figured I’d lay off until fall. I’ll probably still do so unless major developments happen, but I wanted to respond to Shawn’s post.
He is 100% right about everything. Feel free to disagree with me, but when you’re in the higher education world, branding your school and athletic team is everything. I don’t care what our first time pass rate is on the CPA exam. We have a major branding problem that will perpetually hinder this school and all of us alumni until it is resolved. Period. Garibaldi’s biggest blunder will forever be failing to convince the trustees to revert back to UD after he spent all that time and money surveying the alumni. BTW, Garibaldi is the same guy commanding a $525,000 salary from a school that is anything but wealthy in a city that still has serious problems. OU’s President announced weeks ago that she is taking a 20% pay cut. When will G do the same? I’d like him to explain in an open letter how the hell he justifies taking such a salary in good times, let alone a time like this. If he had an ounce of dignity he’d announce today that he’s cutting his salary in half so that ten kids can attend UDM tuition free this year. His actions are blatantly against catholic social teaching and Jesuit values. Don’t come back at me with how he was in the seminary when he was younger or about how that’s just what executives cost. Those are weak bs arguments. We have bad leadership and the first step is admitting that. He might be a nice guy when you talk to him in person but that doesn’t make him the dynamic leader that this school needs right now.
As to Shawn’s call for action. Here’s where I think he’s just a bit wrong in his analysis. Writing trustees is a good start, but it’s unlikely to result in change. What we need is a very dynamic and creative online based petition and social media push that allows all UD/UDM alumni to voice their opinion to formally rename the institution the University of Detroit. Maybe this should be a change.org petition, or possibly an ad hoc website. But, it needs to be organized, well done, and void of any other objectives (including bashing Garibaldi and the current leadership). If done correctly, I believe this could get thousands of alumni to sign an online petition, post on social media, send emails and US mail to trustees to the point where they at least reopen and formally explore the name change.
Such an initiative would take a lot of hard work by a small group. I can’t do this alone. I do feel that I know of at least a couple other alumni that are willing to put in the effort. But, we would need at least a few more. The more diverse we could be (grad year, degree, gender, etc.) the better. If you’re interested in being a part of this please send me a private message. And, if I think we have enough talent to execute this plan we will move forward. All are welcome, regardless of age, politics, geographic location, feelings about Garibaldi, whatever. Again, this will all be done in a very professional manner.
Pax.
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Post by Rogobob77 on May 14, 2020 10:47:38 GMT -5
I recall when the rebrand was rolled out (I believe 2017), Garabaldi said to “give it a chance” to be successful. I think sufficient time has passed to demonstrate it’s never going to work. I’m not overly optimistic about anything changing to say the least, but the best run organizations are willing to admit mistakes: www.businessinsider.com/14-brands-that-had-to-reverse-their-horrible-attempts-at-rebranding-2012-3I think any attempt to right the branding ship needs to involve current students and more recent (post-1990 consolidation) alumni.
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Post by udballer on May 14, 2020 10:51:31 GMT -5
As far as athletics, you’re looking only at championships. However, all 17 University of Detroit Mercy athletic programs were above a 3.0 GPA during the 2020 spring semester; the combined GPA was 3.51. You also referred to recruiting. Well, in basketball the Detroit area is not what it used to be, so mining the area for players will not lead to a great program. And if you look beyond basketball, the school does a great job in bringing local student athletes into the school because those athletes want to get a Detroit Mercy education: engineering, nursing, five-year MBA. That is the essence of student athletics. I understand pride in the academic performance of our athletes. That said, I really don't care. It's great to be able to boast about those accomplishments, especially when the athletic programs themselves are competitive. As Shawn mentioned, that is not the case at our university. I'm sure we could put together athletic teams that averaged nearly a 4.0 if we have no expectations of performance in the sport. That would be very embarrassing... though only mildly more embarrassing than where our programs stand today. I think we all agree with the name change. Why that itself has become an insurmountable mountain to climb is confusing and borderline ridiculous. I also agree that Vowels has dropped the ball consistently. It started with Men's Golf, continued with both basketball programs. Now women's golf had fallen into disarray. Track, Cross Country, Soccer... all on downward trends. The best word to describe where we sit athletically today is probably "sad".
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Post by Commissioner on May 14, 2020 11:47:50 GMT -5
I don't disagree with the sentiments. I think it's pretty clear that everybody but the Sisters and the Board hate the name. They know that. Attendance is already down in the range of 1100 per game. How much lower do you think it should or can go? If they've not noticed now, do you think they'll notice at 950? 900?
Write letters and express dissatisfaction. But boycotting the program? My problem with this is simply that this type of tough love just doesn't work, unless you're bringing about $1 million to the table.
As always, if you just don't want to support the program anymore, stop supporting the program. But don't stop supporting it with the notion that everybody else will, too, and this will force some particular change that you like. It just doesn't work that way.
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Post by calihanmole on May 14, 2020 12:01:06 GMT -5
We are working on a draft of the petition and getting things in place for a social media campaign. To be clear, the campaign will not directly call for alumni and friends to withhold donations or boycott games. Those are personal decisions.
This is a comprehensive and inclusive campaign and petition open to all UD/UDM alumni that wish to rename the institution the University of Detroit and are sick of the branding failures and confusion. All are welcome to join us.
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Post by nctitan on May 14, 2020 13:29:28 GMT -5
Feel free to disagree with me, but when you’re in the higher education world, branding your school and athletic team is everything. I don’t care what our first time pass rate is on the CPA exam. I do disagree. I think that for the vast, vast majority of the students (and their tuition-paying parents) the academics of a college or university is more important than athletic success. After all, if I'm in the College of Business Administration and looking for a job, which will count more with a prospective employer? My academic performance in a challenging and successful program, or the success of the basketball team? If I'm putting together a resume, will I put my class ranking and course of studies or will I put down that the college basketball team won the Horizon League? If I'm applying to grad school or law school, which is more important, the academic reputation of the school or the success of the basketball team?
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Post by calihanmole on May 14, 2020 13:42:23 GMT -5
Fair enough. I believe the institution will be stronger in all respects as University of Detroit. We don’t expect everyone to agree, and we might not force change but at least we will know we tried.
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Post by Commissioner on May 14, 2020 14:27:54 GMT -5
Nice to see the Mole doing something constructive. That little message board vae K musta worked.
And remember, the one rule of this board: No Mercy.
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Post by ptctitan on May 15, 2020 6:00:19 GMT -5
So, after a 30 day hiatus, I return and the first thing on the screen is Shawn's thread. It's too bad because in the next few weeks, there will be more positive news about APR and recruiting for the 2020-21 season.
On the petition, I'd think you'd have a much better chance of success if you asked that the sports teams play as the "Detroit Titans" because that branding change only happened a few years ago and that is a failed brand. If you ask to change back the entire school name, you then would have to address the added enrollment to the school from the College of Health Professions & McAuley School of Nursing (talk about an even more unwieldy name). In other words, what value does Mercy bring to that college's enrollment numbers versus what value does Mercy bring to the Athletics program. The University of Detroit Mercy should compete in NCAA Division I sports as the "Detroit Titans." It's a brand with goodwill left. And it would help the entire university - including the College of Health Professions-McAuley School of Nursing. Good luck with the petition.
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Post by bigchuck on May 15, 2020 9:04:33 GMT -5
On the petition, I'd think you'd have a much better chance of success if you asked that the sports teams play as the "Detroit Titans" because that branding change only happened a few years ago and that is a failed brand. If you ask to change back the entire school name, you then would have to address the added enrollment to the school from the College of Health Professions & McAuley School of Nursing (talk about an even more unwieldy name). In other words, what value does Mercy bring to that college's enrollment numbers versus what value does Mercy bring to the Athletics program. The University of Detroit Mercy should compete in NCAA Division I sports as the "Detroit Titans." It's a brand with goodwill left. And it would help the entire university - including the College of Health Professions-McAuley School of Nursing. Good luck with the petition. Absolutely agree. Let' try for an achievable goal. I would not be surprised if the Mercy tag adds something to the nursing, pa's and dental schools after all this time. That may make any alternative not realistic. I thought we had a good marketing message a few years ago with "Detroit's College Team" and it would have worked well with the Pistons returning to Detroit. Alas, that another small opportunity missed. No reason we could not return to something similar.
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Post by calihanmole on May 15, 2020 9:57:50 GMT -5
I agree that switching for athletics only is a much more obtainable goal. But, I fear that switching for athletics only will only further increase the confusion.
I also feel that U of Detroit is more marketable for the university in general, not just athletics (I acknowledge that may not be true for nursing & health, but my opinion is let’s find out and start a campaign to let all alumni weigh in).
It would be very helpful to have the survey results from 4 years ago. Does anyone know if the university ever shared those survey results? If not, one of the first objectives of our campaign will be to ask university leadership to make the results accessible to all alumni.
Also, to be clear, we are hoping for a big tent. We’d like alumni that have no interest in athletics to sign our petition. I know of many alumni that don’t care about athletics but are sick of people asking if Detroit Mercy is the same as U of D.
We also hope that when campus opens this fall, that current students will take interest in this campaign. They are encouraged to voice their opinions and sign the petition as well.
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