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Post by titantarheel on Jan 21, 2021 11:15:45 GMT -5
I agree U of D can win these two games, my concern is three years after what we all agreed to was a suprise good hire, the program is still looking to find itself, and time is ticking on AD BTW Holman, Howard and Simson etc were great pieces brought in to fit with JR, I see no great pieces here to elevate AD's game. I think Koul is an excellent player and probably could have started on just about any Titan team I have intently watched in the last 50+years. Fraser is an exceptional team/glue guy and Johnson has a very nice shot and is very athletic. Waterman in my opinion has more of the right combination of skill and size to make the NBA than anyone we have had in the last 50+ years. For me the jury is still out on Thompson. Davis has done a nice job collecting talent this year and to the eye has exceeded my expectations this year. Agree with you up. There's definitely some pieces here to be excited about -- Kuol and Waterman specifically are big talents, and as you note Fraser & Johnson can be contributing role players. We haven't quite seen the whole team click for extended stretches, for whatever circumstances (covid, eligibility, injury). It appears there's a high ceiling on what this team COULD do if it all comes together. This means harnessing AD to play the most effective role on this team, whatever exactly that looks like. I want to think we SHOULD beat OU this weekend, but dangit if Kampe doesn't have our number. I'd like a sweep, as a way to launch this season in a very interesting direction. A split could be fine. We just can NOT lose both.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Jan 21, 2021 15:04:46 GMT -5
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Post by Rogobob77 on Jan 21, 2021 15:21:35 GMT -5
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Post by udballer on Jan 21, 2021 17:25:04 GMT -5
I agree U of D can win these two games, my concern is three years after what we all agreed to was a suprise good hire, the program is still looking to find itself, and time is ticking on AD BTW Holman, Howard and Simson etc were great pieces brought in to fit with JR, I see no great pieces here to elevate AD's game. I think Koul is an excellent player and probably could have started on just about any Titan team I have intently watched in the last 50+years. Fraser is an exceptional team/glue guy and Johnson has a very nice shot and is very athletic. Waterman in my opinion has more of the right combination of skill and size to make the NBA than anyone we have had in the last 50+ years. For me the jury is still out on Thompson. Davis has done a nice job collecting talent this year and to the eye has exceeded my expectations this year. I liked Sam's post above about differing opinions. Livens up the board and though we are all Titans fans... we swing from highly pessimistic to fanatically optimistic. On the above, I can't say I agree exactly. Davis took over the team and immediately went 8-10 in conference. That dipped to 6-12 last season. Though I agree that the team looks more talented this season, we currently sit at 2-4. Davis should actually have to do something to exceed expectations... unless your expectation is that we show no improvement in our record in year 3 against a progressively worse Horizon schedule. My expectations for year 3 was a noticeable increase in talent level (check) and finishing at least a couple games over .500 in conference. 12-6 or 11-7 would be nice. I don't think we'll be checking that one off this year, but let's see how close we can get. Without something comparable to a 10-8 record, I'd have to be honest and say my expectations were not met. Year 4 of the regime, my expectations will shoot up greatly. Either win the Horizon regular season or tourney title... or fail.
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Post by uofdfan1983 on Jan 21, 2021 20:35:03 GMT -5
If anyone thinks the program is worse off than it was 3 years ago, they haven't been paying ESPN $4.99 a month to watch these games. There is absolutely NO comparison in talent between this team and Davis' first 2 teams. We've already listed the improved players. I ask now: is there a SINGLE player who left the team after last year, or the previous year, that you miss? Does anyone miss Sam Hoffman (no offense, a nice guy)? What about Marquis Moore? Again, no offense, but Kuol, Waterman, Fraser, Johnson even Koka add important minutes and make a difference. You can win with guys like that on the court.
We have to build teamwork. Continuity. A Program. I also dislike relying on transfers but Davis had no choice. Other than Thompson (and who knows if that story will change) he's been spot-on with these new recruits. He wanted toughness and leadership. We've got some of both now. We need a healthy and comfortable Brandon and we will be OK.
The final grade won't come in until after the Tournament. What happens if we win the Tourney? It could happen. If you don't think it could happen, then quit watching. If we won the Tourney, would your opinion change, regardless of our overall record?
No predictions here. But let Davis run his course here. He's a good coach and a good recruiter. We needed a tough guy. McCallum and Bacari are both nice guys but they're too soft on the players. McCallum was too easy going and Bacari was too worried about whether people thought he was funny and well-dressed.
Davis is a coach. Let him coach.
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Post by udballer on Jan 21, 2021 21:34:29 GMT -5
If anyone thinks the program is worse off than it was 3 years ago, they haven't been paying ESPN $4.99 a month to watch these games. There is absolutely NO comparison in talent between this team and Davis' first 2 teams. We've already listed the improved players. I ask now: is there a SINGLE player who left the team after last year, or the previous year, that you miss? Does anyone miss Sam Hoffman (no offense, a nice guy)? What about Marquis Moore? Again, no offense, but Kuol, Waterman, Fraser, Johnson even Koka add important minutes and make a difference. You can win with guys like that on the court.
We have to build teamwork. Continuity. A Program. I also dislike relying on transfers but Davis had no choice. Other than Thompson (and who knows if that story will change) he's been spot-on with these new recruits. He wanted toughness and leadership. We've got some of both now. We need a healthy and comfortable Brandon and we will be OK.
The final grade won't come in until after the Tournament. What happens if we win the Tourney? It could happen. If you don't think it could happen, then quit watching. If we won the Tourney, would your opinion change, regardless of our overall record?
No predictions here. But let Davis run his course here. He's a good coach and a good recruiter. We needed a tough guy. McCallum and Bacari are both nice guys but they're too soft on the players. McCallum was too easy going and Bacari was too worried about whether people thought he was funny and well-dressed.
Davis is a coach. Let him coach.
To the first question... yes, I miss McFolley who left the team two years back. He was the best guard not named AD that has played here under Davis. If we were to catch lightning in a bottle and win the Horizon tourney this year... that would obviously be a feather in his cap. It would also set the expectation that we track toward meeting my personal expectation of winning the conference next year. Now, it would also beg the question why we're struggling in conference against lower level competition. I'm less concerned with overall record and more concerned with record against our peers in conference. If we play sub-.500 ball in conference, win the tourney and then play sub-.500 ball next season... well, there goes that feather. It's fair to say the jury is still out until the rest of the season plays out. A good coach leading a talented team can absolutely reach all of the milestones I'm looking for. All that's left is to wait and see. Also, while improved, we haven't looked like world beaters this far. If someone doesn't think this team can win the conference tourney they certainly shouldn't have to "quit watching". It will be a pretty large upset for us to win it this year based on what's occurred to date. No reason to quit watching.
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Post by motorcitysam on Jan 22, 2021 7:51:32 GMT -5
Yeah, lets put McCallum and Bacari in the same category because their tenures were SO similar.
I swear a couple of you guys have some weird compulsion that prevents you from going a significant period of time without talking sh!t about Coach Ray. New year, same tiring BS.
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Post by ptctitan on Jan 22, 2021 8:26:49 GMT -5
Every coach has his strengths and weaknesses. Ray hasn't been coaching or recruiting here for the past 5 years. BA has been gone 3 years. Ray is at Tulane. BA is at Denver. I wanted both of them to succeed every year during their tenures here. But neither of them are the present or the future of our program. And, quite frankly, I'm more concerned about the present and the future than I am about debating the past. Too much of our time and energy seems spent upon reliving the past glories and the past failures thinking that in 2021 we can just wave a magic wand or paper over some problems and immediately get a winning season. For many reasons, this just ain't the case in 2021.
Tonight, we are playing at Oakland with a team coached by Mike Davis. I like Coach Davis because I never feel that he is BS'ing me when I speak with him. I am rooting for us to win tonight's game. I think we have the talent and experience to win tonight's game. But the other guys are going to try and win it, too. We are more talented than we have been in the past few years; but we are not so talented that we can win on talent alone - like some of Calihan's teams, Ray's teams, Smokey's teams, Perry's teams, and Dicky V's teams. So, I'm rooting for our 2021 team to win tonight. That should be our focus during this season. Winning as many games as possible.
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Post by motorcitysam on Jan 22, 2021 8:42:04 GMT -5
Every coach has his strengths and weaknesses. Ray hasn't been coaching or recruiting here for the past 5 years. BA has been gone 3 years. Ray is at Tulane. BA is at Denver. I wanted both of them to succeed every year during their tenures here. But neither of them are the present or the future of our program. And, quite frankly, I'm more concerned about the present and the future than I am about debating the past. Too much of our time and energy seems spent upon reliving the past glories and the past failures thinking that in 2021 we can just wave a magic wand or paper over some problems and immediately get a winning season. For many reasons, this just ain't the case in 2021. Tonight, we are playing at Oakland with a team coached by Mike Davis. I like Coach Davis because I never feel that he is BS'ing me when I speak with him. I am rooting for us to win tonight's game. I think we have the talent and experience to win tonight's game. But the other guys are going to try and win it, too. We are more talented than we have been in the past few years; but we are not so talented that we can win on talent alone - like some of Calihan's teams, Ray's teams, Smokey's teams, Perry's teams, and Dicky V's teams. So, I'm rooting for our 2021 team to win tonight. That should be our focus during this season. Winning as many games as possible. Agreed.
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Post by Commissioner on Jan 22, 2021 9:40:14 GMT -5
Sam has often pointed out that Ray made a turnaround at UD look easy. Perry's last team won 7 games. Two years later, Ray won 20.
The Detroit job today is a tough job, and much tougher than when most of us were in college (and most people here, not me, at UD). The city of Detroit is a much smaller city than it was when Dick Vitale arrived to take what people even then thought was a difficult job. The population is less than half that of 1973. And accordingly, there is a lot less talent in the city. This has also been exacerbated by changes in how the state runs its schools, and by the MHSAA's not adopting practices and rules adopted in many states over the past quarter century. Even when Perry took over in the early 1990s, there was a great deal more talent flowing up through the PSL and Catholic League. The University itself is also smaller--roughly 2750 undergrads, well under half of what it was when Dave DeBusschere or Dickie V. arrived. Moreover, its undergrads are now 60-65 percent female, an audience less interested in following athletics. The number of male undergrads is about one-quarter of what it was. Moreover, this reduction in size comes as most other schools have grown in enrollment, making UD comparatively smaller. It is now one of the smallest schools in D-1.
Then you've got the fact that Detroit is not a glamorous destination for recruits. In one sense, it's never been, but up until the mid-1960s it was at least a very prosperous city, with some reputation as place ambitious young people could go--"Detroit" still meant innovation and manufacturing excellence. Today it has almost no widely recognized selling points--not even something like hip "Motown" music. (I know there are many good things about Detroit and the area, but I'm talking about it's reputation to a kid from out-state or out-of-state thinking about where he wants to attend school). And of course, after years of athletic management malpractice, now we're stuck in a rinky-dink conference no one cares about.
I liked (and like) the Mike Davis hire very much, but my preference was always to try to find another up-and-comer, someone destined for greater things, who would come in with amazing energy, turn things around, have 4-6 really good years, and leave for Marquette or Xavier. But that's easier said than done. Taking a proven coach like Davis is safer, and he's shown ability to win at the level we're now at. Realistically, 4-6 years or even more isn't too long to rebuild a program. Homer Drew didn't have a winning season until his 6th year at Valparaiso. He won a total of 14 games in years 2-4. Then he set Valpo on the trajectory to the MVC. Porter Moser had losing records in 4 of his first 5 seasons at Loyola. He made the Final Four in year 7. Bob McKillop didn't have a wining season at Davidson until year 5, and didn't make an NCAA tournament until his 9th season. Now they're a small, selective, private school that McKillop has taken from the lowly Southern Conference to the Atlantic 10. It can be done quicker, and there's lots of examples of that, too. But churning coaches usually isn't the answer.
Coach has said repeatedly that he really likes this year's team. No, the start hasn't been what we'd hoped, but let's pause a minute. Sure, at some point you have to win games. But is anyone going to greatly begrudge us close road losses at Michigan State and Notre Dame (even if it's not one of the better Notre Dame teams)? Losing to Kent State was more disappointing, but Kent is one of the better MAC teams and has a 72 NET ranking. Wright State was the pre-seasson conference favorite and, IMHO, still is the most talented team in the conference (and they are #83 in NET). The Titans lost twice to OU--our only bad losses. The losses were by 2 and 3 points, both caming on late baskets. We win those two, we're 5-5 overall, 4-2 in conference, and I think the complaining is gone. Of course, we didn't win those games. That matters (a lot!). But I agree that this is clearly a more talented team that Davis's first two teams, and a much better coached club than the Bacari teams. There are signs of progress and patience is warranted.
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Post by fan on Jan 22, 2021 10:23:55 GMT -5
I agree "this is a clearly a more talented team than Davis's first two teams, and a much better coached club than the Bacari teams". I guess lost in this all is Detroit has something a lot of D 1 teams do not, and can "buy" TRADITION, Detroit has a basketball tradition.
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Post by ptctitan on Jan 22, 2021 13:29:19 GMT -5
I agree "this is a clearly a more talented team than Davis's first two teams, and a much better coached club than the Bacari teams". I guess lost in this all is Detroit has something a lot of D 1 teams do not, and can "buy" TRADITION, Detroit has a basketball tradition. Let's win tonight and take another step towards restoring that tradition.
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Post by Commissioner on Jan 22, 2021 19:09:18 GMT -5
Titans look TERRIBLE in first 4 minutes. Oakland has gotten an offensive rebound after every one of their missed shots but one--and that only because it went right through Micah Parrish's hands. OU getting real good looks on threes--they've missed a couple, but had good looks. We've already got about 3-4 turnovers. 10-2 OU.
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Post by udballer on Jan 22, 2021 19:13:07 GMT -5
Titans look TERRIBLE in first 4 minutes. Oakland has gotten an offensive rebound after every one of their missed shots but one--and that only because it went right through Micah Parrish's hands. OU getting real good looks on threes--they've missed a couple, but had good looks. We've already got about 3-4 turnovers. 10-2 OU. I know. It's hard to believe with our talent and coaching. All luck. We'll come back and win by 20.
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Post by Commissioner on Jan 22, 2021 19:17:32 GMT -5
Marginally better for the next 4 minutes. Waterman already to bench with 2 fouls. Down 20-7 8 minutes in.
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