|
J n s
Dec 2, 2022 12:11:56 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by rc on Dec 2, 2022 12:11:56 GMT -5
I thought he looked like a freshman who doesn't play much. I don't mean that as an insult--it was a really nice game for him. I mean he hustled; he didn't seem lost, but he wasn't in command; he seemed to be doing things more along the lines of his mental check list than intuition or instinct--"now I should move here; now I should do this; oh, keep my arms up on defense!" He didn't impress me as one of these super athletic, types, faster, stronger or quicker than others on the court. But he hustled; he got himself into the right spots, and PFW seemed not to pay him much attention at first (not a huge surprise given he's hardly played and even in this day and age your first thought about a 6-8 guy is not "three point shooter!") and he made them pay. He misses those open treys, though, and no one would remember this game for Jones. I thought he seemed a touch slow in reacting on defense, which I would attribute to his not playing a lot and still being in a learning situation, not to lack of reflexes, speed, or athleticism, and it never seemed to really hurt us. Again, I don't mean any of this to be negative, I mean it positive--he came in, he worked hard, he got himself in the right places at the right times, and he hit his open shots. He didn't try to do anything he wasn't capable of doing, and didn't force anything. A player who does those things will usually end up being pretty good. I was very encouraged. I’ve always enjoyed watching freshmen develop into complete players over the course of a four year career, those opportunities have been increasingly rare. Commish: thanks for the insight! Rogo: I agree, players at all levels (except the highest maybe) seem to leave for the next level program after a good year. It’s hard to keep anyone. Which means the only way to succeed is to do the same by taking players from lower level programs who want to move up to ours.
|
|
|
J n s
Dec 2, 2022 12:16:20 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by rc on Dec 2, 2022 12:16:20 GMT -5
These comments bought to mind a past Titan favorite of mine: Evan “Best Game Face” Ever Bruinsma . Evan grew into on of the better players of Coach Rays era. Hope Isiah is in that mold. Even though that was just 10 years ago, Evan probably would have moved on since transferring was so much more problematic back then. I wonder if you can stipulate in a LOI that a player must stay for minimum period (e.g. more than 1 year). At least with players who don’t have many other decent offers?
|
|
|
Post by Rogobob77 on Dec 2, 2022 12:20:12 GMT -5
I’ve always enjoyed watching freshmen develop into complete players over the course of a four year career, those opportunities have been increasingly rare. Commish: thanks for the insight! Rogo: I agree, players at all levels (except the highest maybe) seem to leave for the next level program after a good year. It’s hard to keep anyone. Which means the only way to succeed is to do the same by taking players from lower level programs who want to move up to ours. Or take players from higher level (or somewhat lateral) programs who want more playing time (or perhaps just something “different”). That actually seems to be UDM’s modus operandi, especially under Coach Davis. Hard to think of any recruits we’ve had of late who came to the Titans from lower D-1 programs, we have had the occasional D-2 and JC transfers of course.
|
|
|
J n s
Dec 5, 2022 14:49:30 GMT -5
via mobile
rbj likes this
Post by Rogobob77 on Dec 5, 2022 14:49:30 GMT -5
|
|
|
J n s
Dec 5, 2022 17:24:03 GMT -5
Post by nctitan on Dec 5, 2022 17:24:03 GMT -5
Commish: thanks for the insight! Rogo: I agree, players at all levels (except the highest maybe) seem to leave for the next level program after a good year. It’s hard to keep anyone. Which means the only way to succeed is to do the same by taking players from lower level programs who want to move up to ours. Or take players from higher level (or somewhat lateral) programs who want more playing time (or perhaps just something “different”). That actually seems to be UDM’s modus operandi, especially under Coach Davis. Hard to think of any recruits we’ve had of late who came to the Titans from lower D-1 programs, we have had the occasional D-2 and JC transfers of course. The roster this season has five students who came in as freshmen (Davis, LeGraire, S Johnson, Jones, Tankersley) and transfers from McNeese State, Alabama State, UT-Arlington, Grand Canyon, Temple, Old Dominion, Loyola (Chicago), Tulane and Grand Valley State (walk-on). Looking at conference affiliations, three of those schools qualify as "higher level" (Temple, Tulane and Loyola), one as equal (ODU), and the rest as lower levels.
|
|
|
J n s
Dec 5, 2022 18:01:34 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by rc on Dec 5, 2022 18:01:34 GMT -5
Congratulations young man!!
|
|
|
Post by Rogobob77 on Dec 5, 2022 18:19:26 GMT -5
Or take players from higher level (or somewhat lateral) programs who want more playing time (or perhaps just something “different”). That actually seems to be UDM’s modus operandi, especially under Coach Davis. Hard to think of any recruits we’ve had of late who came to the Titans from lower D-1 programs, we have had the occasional D-2 and JC transfers of course. The roster this season has five students who came in as freshmen (Davis, LeGraire, S Johnson, Jones, Tankersley) and transfers from McNeese State, Alabama State, UT-Arlington, Grand Canyon, Temple, Old Dominion, Loyola (Chicago), Tulane and Grand Valley State (walk-on). Looking at conference affiliations, three of those schools qualify as "higher level" (Temple, Tulane and Loyola), one as equal (ODU), and the rest as lower levels. Based on current conference RPI ratings (as of today), the Horizon is the 30th ranked league. Only the Northeast and OVC are lower. So at least by that measure, there aren’t really any transfers (on scholarship) on the Titan roster who “moved up” from a lower level. Consider Grand Canyon — belongs to stronger RPI/NET conference, way better facilities (arena built in 2011), more fan support (consistent sellouts), recent success (2021 NCAA participant), etc. You really can’t make the case in 2022 that transferring to Detroit Mercy from GCU was a step up for Stone. Stone averaged only 3 ppg at GCU, not someone who was tearing it at one level, wanting to step up to play on a bigger stage. ODU is in CUSA, the 10th rated conference, hard to argue that that is “equal” to the bottom feeder Horizon.
|
|
|
J n s
Dec 5, 2022 18:46:05 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by rc on Dec 5, 2022 18:46:05 GMT -5
The roster this season has five students who came in as freshmen (Davis, LeGraire, S Johnson, Jones, Tankersley) and transfers from McNeese State, Alabama State, UT-Arlington, Grand Canyon, Temple, Old Dominion, Loyola (Chicago), Tulane and Grand Valley State (walk-on). Looking at conference affiliations, three of those schools qualify as "higher level" (Temple, Tulane and Loyola), one as equal (ODU), and the rest as lower levels. Based on current conference RPI ratings (as of today), the Horizon is the 30th ranked league. Only the Northeast and OVC are lower. So at least by that measure, there aren’t really any transfers (on scholarship) on the Titan roster who “moved up” from a lower level. Consider Grand Canyon — belongs to stronger conference, way better facilities (arena built in 2011), more fan support (consistent sellouts), recent success (2021 NCAA participant), etc. You really can’t make the case in 2022 that transferring to Detroit Mercy from GCU was a step up for Stone. What what kind of academic institute is it? Is it highly regarded?
|
|
|
J n s
Dec 5, 2022 19:05:13 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Rogobob77 on Dec 5, 2022 19:05:13 GMT -5
Based on current conference RPI ratings (as of today), the Horizon is the 30th ranked league. Only the Northeast and OVC are lower. So at least by that measure, there aren’t really any transfers (on scholarship) on the Titan roster who “moved up” from a lower level. Consider Grand Canyon — belongs to stronger conference, way better facilities (arena built in 2011), more fan support (consistent sellouts), recent success (2021 NCAA participant), etc. You really can’t make the case in 2022 that transferring to Detroit Mercy from GCU was a step up for Stone. What what kind of academic institute is it? Is it highly regarded? Based on US News rankings, Detroit Mercy has stronger academics than GCU. But nctitan was asserting that Grand Canyon is a lower level basketball program compared to UDM, don’t think academics really factor into that equation.
|
|
|
J n s
Dec 5, 2022 20:04:36 GMT -5
Post by nctitan on Dec 5, 2022 20:04:36 GMT -5
What what kind of academic institute is it? Is it highly regarded? Based on US News rankings, Detroit Mercy has stronger academics than GCU. But nctitan was asserting that Grand Canyon is a lower level basketball program compared to UDM, don’t think academics really factor into that equation. As far as Grand Canyon, first let’s not forget that it is a for-profit university that is 70+ percent online. Not exactly a comparable institution to Detroit Mercy. But the context of my comments was athletic conference memberships – as I said, “Looking at conference affiliations.” Grand Canyon is in the (once-proud) Western Athletic Conference, which now includes Stephen F. Austin, Tarleton State, Utah Valley and Utah Tech. Before you respond by trashing the HL, ask yourself, "Would we be excited about leaving Horizon for that conference?" Or any of the other conferences for any of the other schools that I categorized as lower level?
|
|
|
Post by Rogobob77 on Dec 5, 2022 20:21:07 GMT -5
Based on US News rankings, Detroit Mercy has stronger academics than GCU. But nctitan was asserting that Grand Canyon is a lower level basketball program compared to UDM, don’t think academics really factor into that equation. As far as Grand Canyon, first let’s not forget that it is a for-profit university that is 70+ percent online. Not exactly a comparable institution to Detroit Mercy. But the context of my comments was athletic conference memberships – as I said, “Looking at conference affiliations.” Grand Canyon is in the (once-proud) Western Athletic Conference, which now includes Stephen F. Austin, Tarleton State, Utah Valley and Utah Tech. Before you respond by trashing the HL, ask yourself, "Would we be excited about leaving Horizon for that conference?" Or any of the other conferences for any of the other schools that I categorized as lower level? Of course I wouldn’t be excited about Detroit Mercy joining the WAC. But believe it or not, the WAC is currently the 11th ranked conference in all of college basketball, 19 spots ahead of the Horizon: www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-confI don’t think Stone was thinking, “I proved I’m too good for the WAC, I want to see how I measure up against the big boys in the Horizon where I’ll get a chance to face teams like Oakland, IUPUI and Youngstown State.” (Same goes for Phillips who transferred from another WAC school, UT-Arlington, after averaging 2 ppg.) My earlier point was UDM gets transfers from better or essentially equal echelon programs (their stats strongly suggesting they are seeking more playing time), not guys who have excelled at lower level D-1 programs wanting to move up. To be brutally honest, by any objective measure the Horizon is so close to the bottom of the D-1 MBB food chain (for years now), by definition there is little to draw from that could be empirically defined as lower level. I’m not trashing the conference or any of the schools in it, I’m just presenting real data and letting the sad numbers make the case.
|
|
|
J n s
Dec 5, 2022 22:12:48 GMT -5
Post by motorcitysam on Dec 5, 2022 22:12:48 GMT -5
As far as Grand Canyon, first let’s not forget that it is a for-profit university that is 70+ percent online. Not exactly a comparable institution to Detroit Mercy. But the context of my comments was athletic conference memberships – as I said, “Looking at conference affiliations.” Grand Canyon is in the (once-proud) Western Athletic Conference, which now includes Stephen F. Austin, Tarleton State, Utah Valley and Utah Tech. Before you respond by trashing the HL, ask yourself, "Would we be excited about leaving Horizon for that conference?" Or any of the other conferences for any of the other schools that I categorized as lower level? Of course I wouldn’t be excited about Detroit Mercy joining the WAC. But believe it or not, the WAC is currently the 11th ranked conference in all of college basketball, 19 spots ahead of the Horizon: www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-confI don’t think Stone was thinking, “I proved I’m too good for the WAC, I want to see how I measure up against the big boys in the Horizon where I’ll get a chance to face teams like Oakland, IUPUI and Youngstown State.” (Same goes for Phillips who transferred from another WAC school, UT-Arlington, after averaging 2 ppg.) My earlier point was UDM gets transfers from better or essentially equal echelon programs (their stats strongly suggesting they are seeking more playing time), not guys who have excelled at lower level D-1 programs wanting to move up. To be brutally honest, by any objective measure the Horizon is so close to the bottom of the D-1 MBB food chain (for years now), by definition there is little to draw from that could be empirically defined as lower level. I’m not trashing the conference or any of the schools in it, I’m just presenting real data and letting the sad numbers make the case. I think the vast majority of observers would put the WAC ahead of the HL these days. Stone definitely moved down to the HL.
|
|
|
J n s
Dec 5, 2022 22:16:03 GMT -5
Post by motorcitysam on Dec 5, 2022 22:16:03 GMT -5
I am certainly encouraged about this freshman class, after Tank and Jones put together some strong performances in league play. Could be fun watching the two of them and Sonny Johnson in 2023-24.
|
|
|
Post by Rogobob77 on Dec 5, 2022 22:28:50 GMT -5
I am certainly encouraged about this freshman class, after Tank and Jones put together some strong performances in league play. Could be fun watching the two of them and Sonny Johnson in 2023-24. Continuing to veer off topic here, but just wanted to say I believe Anderson, Stone, Parks, Phillips, Moss, and LeGreair are all eligible to return next season as well. We could be decent in 2023-24 if we don’t lose too many from that group.
|
|
|
J n s
Dec 5, 2022 23:31:25 GMT -5
Post by nctitan on Dec 5, 2022 23:31:25 GMT -5
Of course I wouldn’t be excited about Detroit Mercy joining the WAC. But believe it or not, the WAC is currently the 11th ranked conference in all of college basketball, 19 spots ahead of the Horizon: www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-confI don’t think Stone was thinking, “I proved I’m too good for the WAC, I want to see how I measure up against the big boys in the Horizon where I’ll get a chance to face teams like Oakland, IUPUI and Youngstown State.” (Same goes for Phillips who transferred from another WAC school, UT-Arlington, after averaging 2 ppg.) My earlier point was UDM gets transfers from better or essentially equal echelon programs (their stats strongly suggesting they are seeking more playing time), not guys who have excelled at lower level D-1 programs wanting to move up. To be brutally honest, by any objective measure the Horizon is so close to the bottom of the D-1 MBB food chain (for years now), by definition there is little to draw from that could be empirically defined as lower level. I’m not trashing the conference or any of the schools in it, I’m just presenting real data and letting the sad numbers make the case. I think the vast majority of observers would put the WAC ahead of the HL these days. Stone definitely moved down to the HL. WAC used to be something: Air Force Academy, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Utah State, Boise State, BYU, Idaho, Rice, Colorado State, UNLV, New Mexico, San Diego State, San Jose State, SMU, TCU, UTEP, Tulsa, and Wyoming. But what would be the reaction on this board if Detroit Mercy decided to move to the Western Athletic Conference with: Abilene Christian California Baptist Grand Canyon New Mexico State (leaving after this season) Sam Houston State (leaving after this season) Seattle Southern Utah Stephen F. Austin State Tarleton State UT-Arlington Texas Rio Grande Valley (merger of Texas Pan Am, formerly Edinburg University, and UT Brownsville) Utah Tech (formerly Dixie State) Utah Valley Would that be a step up for the Titans?
|
|