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Post by ptctitan on Aug 26, 2021 6:40:57 GMT -5
I saw a college expert tweet out that with the new NIL rules, bates and co think they can make more money the college route than going the G League. Perhaps part of the calculus. (Ps, he should’ve stuck with his Msu ‘commitment’, but I keep realizing I’m just becoming an old guy who fears them changing times and the way the world is) Maybe under Hardaway, Memphis is the G League. They were the G League under Dana Kirk when we beat them decades ago. In fact, under Kirk, they were way ahead of the FanDuel, Draft Kings, NIL way of college hoops. I liked them much better under Tubby. But he is a real coach. I guess he's not flashy enough for some schools.
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Post by motorcitysam on Aug 27, 2021 13:22:33 GMT -5
I saw a college expert tweet out that with the new NIL rules, bates and co think they can make more money the college route than going the G League. Perhaps part of the calculus. (Ps, he should’ve stuck with his Msu ‘commitment’, but I keep realizing I’m just becoming an old guy who fears them changing times and the way the world is) My guess is that it won't just be NIL money that Bates and Duren pocket during their time at Memphis. After all, it's Memphis. Their history is clear. Also, they are already currently under investigation after Coach Hardaway admitted to paying 10 grand to the family of #1 recruit James Wiseman when Wiseman was in high school. Shortly after that payment, Wiseman changed his commitment from Kentucky to Memphis. And to put the cherry on top of the sundae, Hardaway recently hired Larry Brown as an assistant coach. Brown's previous coaching stops have been at UCLA, Kansas, and SMU, and every single program was penalized by the NCAA for major violations that occurred during his tenure. I think that as far as his development, Bates would have been better served playing for Izzo than Hardaway. Emoni is going to need some guidance and instruction after basically playing for his Dad on a team that existed only to showcase him this past season. And the Memphis team is going to be packed with a bunch of guys trying to make a big individual impact as freshmen so they can be one and done and head to the NBA lottery. The elephant in the room is that the NCAA has yet to make their final ruling on violations by the Memphis program that they are currently investigating. We'll see what happens with that.
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Post by motorcitysam on Aug 27, 2021 13:39:11 GMT -5
I saw a college expert tweet out that with the new NIL rules, bates and co think they can make more money the college route than going the G League. Perhaps part of the calculus. (Ps, he should’ve stuck with his Msu ‘commitment’, but I keep realizing I’m just becoming an old guy who fears them changing times and the way the world is) Maybe under Hardaway, Memphis is the G League. They were the G League under Dana Kirk when we beat them decades ago. In fact, under Kirk, they were way ahead of the FanDuel, Draft Kings, NIL way of college hoops. I liked them much better under Tubby. But he is a real coach. I guess he's not flashy enough for some schools. I agree with your sentiment and overall point, but I wouldn't say they are the G League. I'd say they are probably a throwback to the bad old San Francisco teams that got the death penalty, or the UCLA teams when Sam Gilbert was providing all kinds of "benefits" to players behind the scenes. The G League is at least legitimate and up front about what they are and what they do. :-) I've vented about this before, but Tubby won 40 games in two years at Memphis in a straight up rebuild situation, in year two winning 21 games and making the conference semis with only two players with previous D1 experience. The rest were a mix of freshmen and JUCOs. As soon as Smith took the job, Penny Hardaway was working against him behind the scenes, telling Memphis area coaches not to send their players to Memphis, with the promise that Penny would "take care" of them down the line. Penny actually approached the school administration to stump for the head coaching job in January of Smith's second season. You're right; Tubby wasn't flashy enough for a good portion of the Memphis media and fanbase. Memphis fans love winning signing day more than they love actually winning games. The reason given for Smith's firing was his lack of an NCAA appearance in two years at the helm. He finished fifth both years, but would have brought back every significant player from that 21 win team in year three. Since Hardaway took over, Memphis has finished fifth twice, third once, and not made the NCAA tournament, despite having a significant advantage over every other team in the AAC. Memphis will have a HUGE advantage in perceived talent again this year. We'll see how it works out. That post was longer than I intended it to be when I started it, but you all know how I get when I'm talking about Tubby Smith.
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Post by motorcitysam on Sept 12, 2021 13:50:12 GMT -5
In the final ESPN 2021 rankings, revised when Bates and Duren reclassified from 2022, Bates comes in at #3.
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Post by motorcitysam on Dec 5, 2021 12:29:28 GMT -5
I really hope that Emoni Bates isn't paying attention to social media and Memphis sports radio, because the kid is getting killed by the Memphis Tiger fans. Apparently, they expected a savior (or at least Cade Cunningham) and what they got was a skinny 17-year-old who should still be in high school, and he is playing like a 17-year-old who should still be in high school. It's not a good situation for him right now.
When Emoni was at Lincoln, I saw him make a significant improvement from his freshman year to his sophomore year, but after that it seemed like he kind of leveled off. I don't think it helped him to go to a "school" that his father created. From a basketball perspective, he would have been better off going to U-D Jesuit or, If he wanted to get out of state, La Lumiere. I didn't expect him to finish his scholastic career at my school, but he really could have benefitted from a different environment than Ypsi Prep. It doesn't look like the kid lifted a weight the past two years and the basketball situation itself was kind of chaotic. There was an inconsistent schedule and roster turnover. I don't even know if Ypsi Prep is still operating. Their website still has their roster and schedule information from last season.
Emoni probably shouldn't have re-classified, if you're just looking at it from the perspective of playing well this season. He won't be 18 until January, and he's making a big jump in level of competition and level of activity. Big jump in travel, number of games, etc. He has been thrown off by the physicality of the game.
Bates is very talented, but some of the hype he got was over the top. He's paying for that a little bit now, in terms of over the top criticism and unreal expectations. He's got time to get it together, though.
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Post by upbasketballfan on Dec 5, 2021 13:07:32 GMT -5
I really hope that Emoni Bates isn't paying attention to social media and Memphis sports radio, because the kid is getting killed by the Memphis Tiger fans. Apparently, they expected a savior (or at least Cade Cunningham) and what they got was a skinny 17-year-old who should still be in high school, and he is playing like a 17-year-old who should still be in high school. It's not a good situation for him right now. When Emoni was at Lincoln, I saw him make a significant improvement from his freshman year to his sophomore year, but after that it seemed like he kind of leveled off. I don't think it helped him to go to a "school" that his father created. From a basketball perspective, he would have been better off going to U-D Jesuit or, If he wanted to get out of state, La Lumiere. I didn't expect him to finish his scholastic career at my school, but he really could have benefitted from a different environment than Ypsi Prep. It doesn't look like the kid lifted a weight the past two years and the basketball situation itself was kind of chaotic. There was an inconsistent schedule and roster turnover. I don't even know if Ypsi Prep is still operating. Their website still has their roster and schedule information from last season. Emoni probably shouldn't have re-classified, if you're just looking at it from the perspective of playing well this season. He won't be 18 until January, and he's making a big jump in level of competition and level of activity. Big jump in travel, number of games, etc. He has been thrown off by the physicality of the game. Bates is very talented, but some of the hype he got was over the top. He's paying for that a little bit now, in terms of over the top criticism and unreal expectations. He's got time to get it together, though. It’s probably too much to ask but his dad needs to step aside, be supportive of his son and let Penny try and help this kid. His dad obviously was good for him when he was younger but couldn’t step aside for the good of his son. Confidence is a huge part of this game and let’s hope there isn’t some damage here that can’t be corrected.
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Post by udballer on Dec 5, 2021 20:28:23 GMT -5
I think Bates will be perfectly fine. He's 17 years old and already proving he can compete at upper level D1 basketball.
I don't disagree with a single comment Sam made... but I think he'll come through the other end just fine. Hope Penny has him lifting at Memphis. Coming in that unprepared physically was pretty inexcusable.
Never been a big fan of make believe high schools. 😁
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Post by motorcitysam on Dec 7, 2021 17:10:33 GMT -5
I think Bates will be perfectly fine. He's 17 years old and already proving he can compete at upper level D1 basketball. I don't disagree with a single comment Sam made... but I think he'll come through the other end just fine. Hope Penny has him lifting at Memphis. Coming in that unprepared physically was pretty inexcusable. Never been a big fan of make believe high schools. 😁 Yeah, I think he'll be fine. I fully expect to see him in the NBA, and he'll probably do well there. It's not the dog fight league it used to be. Because he is so young, I have heard he won't be draft eligible until the 2023 draft.
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Post by titantarheel on Jan 17, 2022 15:27:24 GMT -5
Since Sam did a half way pulse of the AAC in the Other section, thought I'd put in some compiled notes on how Emoni's frosh season has unfolded. For a few years he was tauted as the next great prospect, the best since LeBron, etc etc. His profile has really chilled over the past few years - and I know many of us would point to the Ypsi Prep experiment his father poorly conceived. There's only a few 2023 mock drafts out there (and taken with a HUGE grain of salt for so many reasons) but he's generally now pegged from 10 to 22'ish in that draft. Interesting read just on Bates --> bleacherreport.com/articles/2952146-is-17-year-old-emoni-bates-ncaa-experiment-hurting-his-nba-draft-stock Choice bits: "Scouts have already started questioning whether Bates' decision to attend Memphis was the right one for his development and stock." "After a month of college hoops, Bates is no longer being viewed as a prospect NBA teams think about rebuilding around. The narrative had already started to shift during his last year of high school, as scouts became turned off by his shot-hunting style and body language. His start at Memphis has only backed up the idea that Bates' trajectory doesn't appear as exciting as it once did." "Maybe Bates just isn't who many thought he was at 15 and 16 years old. That's possible. But maybe it's all about patience and the idea he's still too young for his struggles to justify the downgrading. Had he not arrived at Memphis with superstar comparisons and a prominent reputation, we'd likely be focusing more on the positives than the negatives." "His overall shot selection has been noticeably poor, which tracks back to AAU and high school. A reliance on low-percentage specialty jumpers and long two-pointers" "Still, if we were to put together a 2023 mock draft, Bates would be slotted somewhere in the late lottery to teens—not the top three where most fans and scouts initially banked on him going." Read on a few higher profile guys in the '23 draft class --> www.sbnation.com/nba/2021/12/2/22810350/nba-draft-2023-mock-scoot-henderson-victor-wembanyama-emoni-bates"Scouts have cooled on Bates considerably since he was once touted as the ‘next Kevin Durant’ early in his high school career. Bates suffered from poor shot selection and an environment that fostered his worst habits over the last couple years in Michigan, which is why he deserves credit for the bold leap he made this season. Bates graduated early and enrolled at Memphis despite being too young to enter the 2022 draft. Now his strengths and weaknesses are on full display for potentially two seasons of college ball." "With so much conversation around Bates for so many years, it’s easy to forget he’s still just 17 years old. A 6’9 wing who can shoot and handle the way he can will have appeal as long he can reign himself in a little bit. Two years of tough love at Memphis could be the best thing for him."
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Post by motorcitysam on Jan 17, 2022 16:53:20 GMT -5
Since Sam did a half way pulse of the AAC in the Other section, thought I'd put in some compiled notes on how Emoni's frosh season has unfolded. For a few years he was tauted as the next great prospect, the best since LeBron, etc etc. His profile has really chilled over the past few years - and I know many of us would point to the Ypsi Prep experiment his father poorly conceived. There's only a few 2023 mock drafts out there (and taken with a HUGE grain of salt for so many reasons) but he's generally now pegged from 10 to 22'ish in that draft. Interesting read just on Bates --> bleacherreport.com/articles/2952146-is-17-year-old-emoni-bates-ncaa-experiment-hurting-his-nba-draft-stock Choice bits: "Scouts have already started questioning whether Bates' decision to attend Memphis was the right one for his development and stock." "After a month of college hoops, Bates is no longer being viewed as a prospect NBA teams think about rebuilding around. The narrative had already started to shift during his last year of high school, as scouts became turned off by his shot-hunting style and body language. His start at Memphis has only backed up the idea that Bates' trajectory doesn't appear as exciting as it once did." "Maybe Bates just isn't who many thought he was at 15 and 16 years old. That's possible. But maybe it's all about patience and the idea he's still too young for his struggles to justify the downgrading. Had he not arrived at Memphis with superstar comparisons and a prominent reputation, we'd likely be focusing more on the positives than the negatives." "His overall shot selection has been noticeably poor, which tracks back to AAU and high school. A reliance on low-percentage specialty jumpers and long two-pointers" "Still, if we were to put together a 2023 mock draft, Bates would be slotted somewhere in the late lottery to teens—not the top three where most fans and scouts initially banked on him going." Read on a few higher profile guys in the '23 draft class --> www.sbnation.com/nba/2021/12/2/22810350/nba-draft-2023-mock-scoot-henderson-victor-wembanyama-emoni-bates"Scouts have cooled on Bates considerably since he was once touted as the ‘next Kevin Durant’ early in his high school career. Bates suffered from poor shot selection and an environment that fostered his worst habits over the last couple years in Michigan, which is why he deserves credit for the bold leap he made this season. Bates graduated early and enrolled at Memphis despite being too young to enter the 2022 draft. Now his strengths and weaknesses are on full display for potentially two seasons of college ball." "With so much conversation around Bates for so many years, it’s easy to forget he’s still just 17 years old. A 6’9 wing who can shoot and handle the way he can will have appeal as long he can reign himself in a little bit. Two years of tough love at Memphis could be the best thing for him." Good stuff, TTH. I first started hearing about Bates when he was in seventh grade, although I didn't see him play until his freshman year at Lincoln. The hype train started early on him and just picked up speed. He's talented, but I realized at Lincoln he was playing relatively soft competition in conference play and it was hard to tell how good he actually was. The move to Ypsi Prep didn't tell us much, as he was basically playing on a team designed to showcase him. Leaving high school a year early for Memphis was not the best move for his long term development, but as we have learned, you can be an underachieving college player and get drafted in the first round in the NBA if you had enough stars by your name in high school. I think he'll be better next year in college, if he decides to play there rather than going overseas or the G League, and I expect him to get drafted. How good he will eventually be is a mystery to me. For now, I hate to see him getting trashed so bad on social media, message boards, and sports radio. They are on his case pretty bad. One thing I like about this message board is that we are very careful to criticize the young men and women who play on our teams. The Memphis message boards and media are the opposite. They can be brutal and personal. And not very knowledgeable in many cases. Some of them are still blaming Josh Pastner and Tubby Smith for the struggles Penny Hardaway is having as head coach.
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Post by motorcitysam on Feb 2, 2022 14:44:18 GMT -5
The Emoni situation at Memphis took another turn as Emoni's father (not his coach, not the school) announced that Emoni was questionable for Thursday's game with Cincinnati and would be evaluated by a specialist back in Michigan for back trouble. The father claims that Emoni will be back at Memphis once he is healthy, but there is a lot of smoke down there about the dysfunctional environment of that team and how some players are expected to just shut it down for the year. We'll see how it plays out. Memphis is currently 5-4, 11-8, but on a two game winning streak. Edit: Had to edit this post to correct the details on the Tigers current streak. www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33197965/emoni-bates-absolutely-plans-playing-memphis-healthy-dad-says
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Post by larrytitan on Feb 2, 2022 15:40:10 GMT -5
Emoni and Patrick Baldwin Jr will both be out of school and playing ball overseas soon.
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Post by fan on Feb 3, 2022 11:02:58 GMT -5
Baldwin and Emoni is an example of how not to micromanage a talented player either by a father or father coach. AD and Ray JR to their fathers' credit handled their talented sons better and benefited them both.
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Post by titantarheel on Feb 3, 2022 11:16:40 GMT -5
All the negative chatter and perceptions of Bates' micro-handling of Emoni's career is just accelerating further and further - and we all saw with the JJJ/JB saga how moving every year to 'chase the league' stunted their development (I know it is 100% apples/oranges, but still, some serious father micromanaging in play especially to try to create a bubble for the players). Some interesting Memphis coverage --> dailymemphian.com/subscriber/section/sportsgeoff-calkins/article/26857/calkins-emoni-bates-temporarily-left-building-tigers-problems-remain Included this section: "Far be it from me to question whether Bates really has an injured back — he might! — but 1) why didn’t we hear anything about this from Hardaway or anyone else; 2) why did he have to fly to see a specialist in Michigan; 3) don’t we have some pretty good doctors right here in Memphis; 4) could the previously unmentioned back issues have anything to do with the fact that Bates was subbed out of the Jan. 27 East Carolina game with 4:27 left, never to return; 5) and that he played just 22 minutes in that game, fewer than five other Memphis Tigers?" And observational tweet from NCAA hoops long timer Gary Parrish --->
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Post by motorcitysam on Feb 3, 2022 12:08:26 GMT -5
I think the Baldwin and Bates situations are different. Baldwin didn't jump from school to school, didn't re-reclassify, didn't join a team with a longtime cheater on the staff. Baldwin is hurt. That happens. I don't think the Father did anything wrong. Patrick Jr. missed pretty much his entire senior season due to an ankle injury. I can understand both player and coach being cautious.
The big difference I see with Bates and the other situations is that Baldwin, Davis, and McCallum all were actual professional college coaches before they had sons who were college-basketball prospects. Baldwin wasn't a head coach before Milwaukee, but he has a great background as an assistant Point being, none of them needed to look at their son as a golden ticket.
Mr. Bates should have followed the lead of Cassius Winston's Dad.
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