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Post by Rogobob77 on Jan 26, 2023 16:17:06 GMT -5
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Post by udballer on Jan 26, 2023 19:53:57 GMT -5
Though it will be taken as negativity more than anything else... that article really reinforces the fact that our coach is laser-focused on AD and his greatness.
Well written article though. Hopefully it puts butts in the seats.
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Post by Commissioner on Jan 27, 2023 7:52:01 GMT -5
Though it will be taken as negativity more than anything else... that article really reinforces the fact that our coach is laser-focused on AD and his greatness. Well written article though. Hopefully it puts butts in the seats. And this badly needed to be said, because it hasn't been expressed enough by those who believe it to be true. For what it's worth, though, I didn't get that impression from this article at all. I got the impression a reporter was asking a coach about his star player and a father about his son and their relation, and the coach/father was answering. I thought it was a good article and good PR for the program. I enjoy those all-too-rare opportunities to read about the Titans in the national media. I think I can be pretty critical at times, but it never really crosses my mind to read a positive article on the Titans and think, "what negative spin can we put on this?"
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Post by udballer on Jan 27, 2023 17:20:11 GMT -5
... that article really reinforces the fact that our coach is laser-focused on AD and his greatness. For what it's worth, though, I didn't get that impression from this article at all. Really? You didn't get that impression when you read the paragraph on greatness? How MD studied "greatness" so that he could apply it to Antoine? I didn't dive deep to get that... it's pretty much a series of direct quotes.
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Post by nctitan on Jan 27, 2023 22:03:43 GMT -5
For what it's worth, though, I didn't get that impression from this article at all. Really? You didn't get that impression when you read the paragraph on greatness? How MD studied "greatness" so that he could apply it to Antoine? I didn't dive deep to get that... it's pretty much a series of direct quotes. Go gack and re-read that paragraph. Coach Davis studied that so he could prepare Antoine for a career. "If you see something in him – I read a book – if you see something in your kid, why not get the best out of him?" Any coach will cultivate the best in his players, regardless of whether they are his child. The question is whether the coach subordinates the others on the team for his son, so I think the revealing quote is "In recruiting, people are like, ‘Well, it’s daddy ball. He’s going to shoot all the balls’,” Mike Davis said. “But, if you do your research: Everybody who comes here, their average goes up. The analytic people will tell you how much you improve playing with him." Every year the Titans bring in some underachieving player(s) and they play way above their previous numbers. Those who leave and go elsewhere generally play below where they were as a Titan.
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Post by udballer on Jan 27, 2023 22:37:50 GMT -5
Really? You didn't get that impression when you read the paragraph on greatness? How MD studied "greatness" so that he could apply it to Antoine? I didn't dive deep to get that... it's pretty much a series of direct quotes. Go gack and re-read that paragraph. Coach Davis studied that so he could prepare Antoine for a career. "If you see something in him – I read a book – if you see something in your kid, why not get the best out of him?" Any coach will cultivate the best in his players, regardless of whether they are his child. The question is whether the coach subordinates the others on the team for his son, so I think the revealing quote is "In recruiting, people are like, ‘Well, it’s daddy ball. He’s going to shoot all the balls’,” Mike Davis said. “But, if you do your research: Everybody who comes here, their average goes up. The analytic people will tell you how much you improve playing with him." Every year the Titans bring in some underachieving player(s) and they play way above their previous numbers. Those who leave and go elsewhere generally play below where they were as a Titan. You should re-read it. My comments are spot on. Coach's comments about players who come here is misleading at best. The handful of players that he allows to get minutes around his son may improve their numbers from what they'd done previously... when they were getting 4 minutes / game. That doesn't mean much though in the grand scheme. Its dad's way of telling the world that AD is great to play with. No more, no less.
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Post by Commissioner on Jan 28, 2023 0:03:44 GMT -5
Go gack and re-read that paragraph. Coach Davis studied that so he could prepare Antoine for a career. "If you see something in him – I read a book – if you see something in your kid, why not get the best out of him?" Any coach will cultivate the best in his players, regardless of whether they are his child. The question is whether the coach subordinates the others on the team for his son, so I think the revealing quote is "In recruiting, people are like, ‘Well, it’s daddy ball. He’s going to shoot all the balls’,” Mike Davis said. “But, if you do your research: Everybody who comes here, their average goes up. The analytic people will tell you how much you improve playing with him." Every year the Titans bring in some underachieving player(s) and they play way above their previous numbers. Those who leave and go elsewhere generally play below where they were as a Titan. You should re-read it. My comments are spot on. Coach's comments about players who come here is misleading at best. The handful of players that he allows to get minutes around his son may improve their numbers from what they'd done previously... when they were getting 4 minutes / game. That doesn't mean much though in the grand scheme. Its dad's way of telling the world that AD is great to play with. No more, no less. No, you're just reading into it your prior prejudices. Anyway, I still think it's really odd that a fan's first reaction to a nice article on his attention-starved team appearing in the national media is to come up with a negative angle, not in any analytic way, but just to reassert his oft-asserted opinion.
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Post by udballer on Jan 28, 2023 10:08:50 GMT -5
I think its laughable how many on this board seem to think that what is going on with AD and the scoring chase somehow benefits the program in total. There is no tangible benefit. Next year, AD (and possibly MD) will move on and take the individual achievements with him. Unless there is a complete 180 pulled by this team in total over the remainder of this season... the legacy will be a legacy of losing.
I hope this team wins some games to close the year... and not just so AD gains more games to catch Pistol. That aspect means less than nothing to me. Is it cool to have one of our own up on that list? Sure. Would I trade it for as little as 1 more win over Oakland in the past 5 years? Absolutely.
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Post by upbasketballfan on Jan 28, 2023 10:42:31 GMT -5
I think its laughable how many on this board seem to think that what is going on with AD and the scoring chase somehow benefits the program in total. There is no tangible benefit. Next year, AD (and possibly MD) will move on and take the individual achievements with him. Unless there is a complete 180 pulled by this team in total over the remainder of this season... the legacy will be a legacy of losing. I hope this team wins some games to close the year... and not just so AD gains more games to catch Pistol. That aspect means less than nothing to me. Is it cool to have one of our own up on that list? Sure. Would I trade it for as little as 1 more win over Oakland in the past 5 years? Absolutely. Sometimes when you lose a lot you tend to cling to anything that looks like a win. Someway you can justify your being a fan of this program to your friends and family. I think Baller is right the fact that Hayward or DeBusschere played at dear old Calihan Hall on the Historic campus at Liv. and 6 doesn’t put any butts in the seats or students in the classrooms. The only thing Davis’s accomplishments will do is put another banner in the rafters to deflect the heat down and it already gets pretty stuffy in Hall as it is. Winning is what matters. Look at Youngstown coming up out of Slocum’s cellar. Young energetic coach getting er done. Remember in every contest you have a 50% chance of being the winner. If you are consistently around average you have a problem and it can’t be fixed with another banner.
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Post by Commissioner on Jan 28, 2023 11:24:59 GMT -5
I think its laughable how many on this board seem to think that what is going on with AD and the scoring chase somehow benefits the program in total. There is no tangible benefit. Next year, AD (and possibly MD) will move on and take the individual achievements with him. Unless there is a complete 180 pulled by this team in total over the remainder of this season... the legacy will be a legacy of losing. I hope this team wins some games to close the year... and not just so AD gains more games to catch Pistol. That aspect means less than nothing to me. Is it cool to have one of our own up on that list? Sure. Would I trade it for as little as 1 more win over Oakland in the past 5 years? Absolutely. Well of course it helps the program in total. To say otherwise is just stupid. The only real question is how much. I think the broad, general consensus around here is "not much." We get more media that we've gotten in some time, certainly for a losing squad. That media will help with general awareness of the program in the Detroit area. I'm sure there are people who, quite literally, are thinking, "Geez, I'd kinda forgotten about UofD. Haven't been there in a long time." We'll get a few more butts in the seats, and that will bring in a little bit of revenue. Maybe some will come back, though Monday's fiasco didn't help with that. Somewhere there will be a recruit who opens the mail from us, because he's at least heard of the program, and heard of it because of AD. But I don't think anyone thinks this is somehow going to make the program. Ultimately, Baller, you're pretty much arguing with a straw man that exists only in your head, and maybe that of Up, and to do so you're staking out a position that is patently absurd. As Up says in another post just above, in the end you gotta win. Winning is what makes a program relevant, and we've had now a decade of losing, often losing big, amplified by the fact that our conference has, in that time, gone from being one of the better mid-major leagues to one of the worst. But "just win" is easier said than done. Sometimes you get just the right coach, but honestly, that's rare, and in mid-major programs, they tend to move on quickly. Usually, building a winning program consists of lots of little things, none of which, alone, make much difference, and so can be pooh-ppohed away by the perpetual complainers. Improving the game day experience. Mics that work at events. A proactive marketing strategy. Winning 13 games instead of 10. Fixing up the Titan Club. Developing good relations with the few local beat reporters that remain. Connecting with HS coaches. The list is long and could go on at length. But it will be the fool who says, "who cares if mics work at events? It's laughable that people think that benefits the program!" Of course, one can argue that the program is, on balance, worse off for Davis having been here. The argument is necessarily speculative, because it is a counterfactual. But I do know that we weren't exactly beating up on the league before Davis arrived. In my experience, there are two constant prejudices among many fans. The first, at least for fans of teams that are losing, is to blame the best player. The other, when applicable, is to criticize any kind of familial relationship on the team and make unsupported accusations based upon that fact alone. But whether or not the Titans would have been better had AD stayed in Houston, it doesn't matter now. In the here and now, his chase of Pistol Pete is a positive, so even if you think the whole thing has been a net negative, you should at least be trying to minimize your losses. Beyond that, for most of us fans, who have watched the Titans lose, lose, lose, and lose--8 losing seasons in 10 years, four of them 20-loss seasons; and the winning seasons being just 16-15 and 12-10 with no post-season--look for something that we can enjoy. One of those things is AD's pursuit of Pistol Pete. Because AD is our guy. And he will always be our guy. He even spurned the Big Boys to stay our guy. And if he should somehow catch Pete--looks doubtful--we will have the all-time scoring leader for a long time. That will be ours. Meanwhile, the rest of us--I think I can speak for a lot of us, anyway--get it. We understand that you don't like Coach, and you're not a fan of AD, and you don't care about the chase. We get it, that you think Coach doesn't care about winning as much as AD getting his points. I really mean that. I read every post on this site, so I do understand your position here. That's OK. That's your perogative. But we've heard it. A lot. It wouldn't hurt you--really, it wouldn't--to just let others enjoy the chase. It doesn't mean we don't care about winning. It doesn't mean we have on rose-colored glasses. It doesn't mean we think this will turn the program around. But it's fun. It's something. There's not much else for Titan fans to cheer these days. Go AD!
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Post by fan on Jan 28, 2023 13:54:34 GMT -5
AD is a huge plus for local college basketball fans and the school. 40 years later ask anybody that follows college basketball what school PP went to and LSU always comes up. Some fans still bring up Bevo Frances. If AD
could break PP record it would be great for the school. The next few weeks fans and UDM followers should get out and see AD play, it's a treat, and it may be history.
We should all hope fpr more wins so UDM could play more games....GO AD
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Post by udballer on Jan 28, 2023 21:05:23 GMT -5
I don't blame AD and I don't hate AD. He's an excellent player and I've said as much multiple times. He's my son's favorite player in the world and more often than not I'll be standing there hoping he gets a high-five from our star when we're in Calihan. I don't like everything he does, of course, so I'll state those things as well because I call them as I see them. For example, I could do without his blowing kisses to opposing fan bases en route to a 9 point loss. I'll call dumb shit like that out... but in the end those are small things compared to the whole of what he brings.
Our coach is another story for me at this point. It's pretty obvious that he's unable to turn things around with the program. He hired in with a promise of a 3 month turnaround. It's now been 5 years and the only hardware or notoriety that I've seen since have stayed within his immediate family. Whether that is his intent or not is debatable, but factual nonetheless. We've now spent the better part of a decade with fingers crossed trying to get the program back to Coach Ray levels and im not sure that his YouTube-based recruiting method is going to move the needle further. Each comment he makes on AD's greatness and opponent's need to double and triple-team him shines a bright light on his own inability to surround his son with adequate talent or coaching.
But wait, but wait... Liddell and Stone are awesome! Damezi and AJ are incredible 4th and 5th options! Perhaps true statements. AD is a generational talent! Also potentially true. If everyone is great and yet we are near the bottom of an awful conference... than MD must be highly flawed. But wait, he brought in all the talent! We go full circle and the only fact that remains is that we're a below average Horizon team. Whatever this is... it isn't working.
As a fan of the Titan program, I'll continue to head to Calihan (more than the majority of posters) and root them on. As a proud alum, I'll continue to buy apparel in the bookstore and in Calihan for myself, son, wife and parents. What I wont do is pretend that AD scoring a ton of points is actually moving some kind of needle for the program in total. The attendance figures themselves are enough to prove that out.
Gotta go. Getting a phone call from yet another buddy who's a huge college basketball fan, yet has never heard of AD. Odd how many of them are out there.
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Post by nctitan on Jan 29, 2023 10:36:47 GMT -5
For the next 40 years -- maybe more, unlikely fewer -- the record books will show AD as either the #1 or #2 scorer, and following his name will be "Detroit Mercy." That alone is reason to be happy that he didn't move on last season. I wouldn't want to see "Antoine Davis, Brigham Young" in the record books. Is it going to attract more students or athletes? Probably not. But it always be a source of pride, just like the 1928 football team and 1972 fencing squad. And Big Dave and Spencer and Vitale. It gives us legacy.
Watching the Oakland game I couldn't help but think how Rocket Watts would've helped our team. Teamed with AD we would have at least a few more wins. At one point last summer Watts was considered a better than average probability of becoming a Titan. Did he choose Oakland because of they have superior academic programs? Not likely. A better history? Definitely not. Because they have a better coach? Maybe but probably not. Because he liked the teammates at Oakland better than the players at Detroit Mercy? Doubtful. Because they have better facilities? Quite likely, especially after experiencing the MSUs he had attended. First step to turning the program around is to upgrade the Athletics experience -- training, dining, locker rooms.
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Post by upbasketballfan on Jan 29, 2023 11:14:30 GMT -5
For the next 40 years -- maybe more, unlikely fewer -- the record books will show AD as either the #1 or #2 scorer, and following his name will be "Detroit Mercy." That alone is reason to be happy that he didn't move on last season. I wouldn't want to see "Antoine Davis, Brigham Young" in the record books. Is it going to attract more students or athletes? Probably not. But it always be a source of pride, just like the 1928 football team and 1972 fencing squad. And Big Dave and Spencer and Vitale. It gives us legacy. Watching the Oakland game I couldn't help but think how Rocket Watts would've helped our team. Teamed with AD we would have at least a few more wins. At one point last summer Watts was considered a better than average probability of becoming a Titan. Did he choose Oakland because of they have superior academic programs? Not likely. A better history? Definitely not. Because they have a better coach? Maybe but probably not. Because he liked the teammates at Oakland better than the players at Detroit Mercy? Doubtful. Because they have better facilities? Quite likely, especially after experiencing the MSUs he had attended. First step to turning the program around is to upgrade the Athletics experience -- training, dining, locker rooms. I think at the time he committed to Oakland we only knew we had Kyle. Everyone was leaving, AD, Phillips not sure if we had made any announcements. Kind of hard to know how you would fit in or if you like your teammates didn’t know any of them. All from out of the area. He knew for sure a majority of their team was coming back and a couple who’s play was complimentary to his game. AD didn’t announce he was coming back until May 8, Anderson May 25 and Stone was probably the only one truly in the fold at the time and he has a Similar game to Watts but is a better all around player. Watts commitment was announced on May 26 and probably made a verbal earlier than that. Our system of being so secretive can backfire on us.
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Post by calihanmole on Jan 29, 2023 16:37:00 GMT -5
This latest road trip was interesting in a few ways. Mostly in that Antoine’s shot at claiming the scoring record is now inextricably tied to the Titans winning the HL tournament. He was guarded heavily and scored under the average he needed to pass Maravich, and now that average per game just continues to go up. Antoine is now 350 points behind Maravich with 8 regular season games remaining plus 1 guaranteed HL tourney game, meaning AD would need to average 38.9 PPG here on out. Simply not going to happen. If the Titans win in the first round of the HL tourney, it unlocks a second game and brings his needed average to 35. Winning a quarterfinal game and unlocking another game brings it to 31.8.
Antoine has some cupcakes on the schedule in IUPUI and Green Bay, but he also has some tough opponents. Teams play tough down the stretch, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that the Titans need to make it to the HL championship game or win the HL tournament in order for Antoine to break the record.
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