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Loyola
Feb 19, 2022 19:52:21 GMT -5
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Post by rc on Feb 19, 2022 19:52:21 GMT -5
I’m watching the tail end of Drake at Loyola and I’m impressed with the crowd size and atmosphere. What’s strange is that I don’t recall that much excitement or crowd size when we competed against them in the Horizon. I went to many of those games and I don’t recall much of a difference from our own home games. I know they had that final four run, but that was a few years ago and a bit of a fluke. Any thoughts? I’m obviously jealous.
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Loyola
Feb 19, 2022 21:31:13 GMT -5
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Post by upbasketballfan on Feb 19, 2022 21:31:13 GMT -5
They went to the NCAA two or three times and being in a better conference with more interest and better competition coming in helps. Also an Administration that has recognized the importance of athletic success on the student body. We have a lousy AD and an Administration that just tell you what you want to hear but and then do what they want to do. The news is we’re probably getting some more of the same ole same ole soon. Loyola isn’t stopping there either they are upgrading by going to the Big East thus keeping that momentum going.
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Loyola
Feb 19, 2022 22:38:25 GMT -5
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Post by rc on Feb 19, 2022 22:38:25 GMT -5
They went to the NCAA two or three times and being in a better conference with more interest and better competition coming in helps. Also an Administration that has recognized the importance of athletic success on the student body. We have a lousy AD and an Administration that just tell you what you want to hear but and then do what they want to do. The news is we’re probably getting some more of the same ole same ole soon. Loyola isn’t stopping there either they are upgrading by going to the Big East thus keeping that momentum going. Actually they are going to the A10 not to the Big East.
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Loyola
Feb 19, 2022 23:32:01 GMT -5
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Post by upbasketballfan on Feb 19, 2022 23:32:01 GMT -5
My mistake but they are moving forward not looking for excuses to keep treading water.
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Loyola
Feb 20, 2022 1:42:56 GMT -5
Post by ptctitan on Feb 20, 2022 1:42:56 GMT -5
It also took Loyola 10 years to build the proper facilities including a new $26 million practice facility and attain a consistently winning team. And it took Porter Moser until his 7th year as head coach there to have a winning regular season record in Loyola's conference, 2 years in the HL and 5 years in the MVC. Even in the year in which they won 20 games and the CBI, Loyola was 8-10 in the MVC.
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Loyola
Feb 20, 2022 8:59:16 GMT -5
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Post by rc on Feb 20, 2022 8:59:16 GMT -5
So PCT, do you believe they’ve passed DePaul in Chicago in terms of both rankings and attendance?
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Loyola
Feb 20, 2022 9:51:27 GMT -5
Post by ptctitan on Feb 20, 2022 9:51:27 GMT -5
So PCT, do you believe they’ve passed DePaul in Chicago in terms of both rankings and attendance? IMO, they are about the same on attendance - in the low 3,000s. The issues are whether Loyola has peaked in its current on-court success cycle and can Valentine recruit enough good players to make the Ramblers a contender in the A-10. So, if we can about double our average home attendance, that appears to be sufficient for the A-10. The point of my post was that Loyola's recent on-court success did not happen overnight. And it did not happen by having 4 different coaches in less than 7 years. It took Moser to his 7th year as coach before he had a winning regular season record in the MVC.
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Post by Commissioner on Feb 20, 2022 11:01:37 GMT -5
NOTE: This quote is not aimed at RC or Up or what they've said in this thread. I'm really using this to touch on an attitude that surfaces here and there in various threads among various posters, and posting it in light of what appear to be the faint rumblings of a "fire the coach" movement.
Changing coaches now would be foolish. Our problem is not the coach, it's the University. By that, I mean an inept athletic department, an inept pr department, and the apparent determination of the Board to destroy the brand at all costs. Tne University has a considerably smaller undergrad enrollment than it did when Dave DeBusschere and Bob Calihan were around, and one that is considerably more female (and try as one might to deny it, the reality is that male students are more interested in their school's athletic teams). But I also mean things over which the University has little or no control--a city that has less than half the population it had when Jim Harding and Dick Vitale were hired; a city that is, correspondingly, no longer the recruiting mecca it was when Perry Watson was hired; weather that is unappealing to many recruits, and an area around that, within a short distance of campus, is shockingly run down. Academically, the University may be in the worst possible place for its athletic recruiting--selective and demanding enough to exclude a number potential recruits (certainly more than any team in our conference), but not a nationally recognized academic star like the schools in the Ivy or Patriot, or a Davidson, Duke, or Stanford, whose academic brand can attract certain recruits. As for the program, we had been nationally ranked less than 18 months before Dick Vitale was hired. When Mike Davis was hired, it had been nearly 40 years since we were nationally ranked. Perhaps that says enough.
There is still a lingering mindset in some quarters that the current situation is a strange aberration, like a 24 hour stomach bug, and we'll soon be back where we belong, hosting Notre Dame and Villanova and being a player on the national scene. It just ain't so. It's been a tough process but we're making slow headway.
Loyola's turnaround didn't happen overnight, but it did happen relatively quickly. It took Butler well over a decade of sustained success, including a pair of final four appearances, to move into the top ranks of college hoops. Xavier dominated the MCC for well over a decade before moving to the A10. Gonzaga invested heavily for a decade before some surprising NCAA tournament success got them attention, and there was no small amount of luck in their being able to capitalize on that.
The idea that we're just a coach away from a return to glory is foolish. This is a long haul, and people need to be in it for the long haul.
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Loyola
Feb 20, 2022 11:38:05 GMT -5
Post by calihanmole on Feb 20, 2022 11:38:05 GMT -5
I agree with commissioner. We have problems, but the coach is not one of them. Things that could help turn this MBB program and university around:
* A new university president that is not afraid to make needed changes (including hiring a young and thirsty AD). * Officially renaming the school the University of Detroit (I don’t think simply rebranding athletics is good enough. U of D sounds like a university with history and pride, whereas Mercy sounds like a hospital or dash school). * More development as far as student housing for athletes and non athletes. I know there’s been some progress, but we need much more. * An exceptional fundraising campaign. I know we just finished a campaign and hit goal, blah blah blah. But it wasn’t an institutional historic fundraising campaign by any stretch, compare what we did to other catholic schools of similar endowment/enrollment. It wasn’t exceptional and the truth is it was probably just average. * Renovation of Calihan Hall. We look like total shit on tv. I’m just being honest. We have bleacher seating with people splayed out lounging around like they’re hanging out at a greyhound bus station (this was true before COVID). We need to gut the floor level, add actual seats, paint the walls a pleasing color so we look like a place people want to visit and athletes see themselves playing. I realize that this would require another facility for athletics to practice and hold some events like fencing, but it is just a must do. * Get the brand done right once and for all and don’t change it. See the second point about renaming the university. Good news on the brand is that we wouldn’t need to pay a million dollars for a new logo. We already have the lower case old English “d” - just bring it back - $0 cost.
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Loyola
Feb 20, 2022 16:06:41 GMT -5
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Post by rc on Feb 20, 2022 16:06:41 GMT -5
I don’t understand why the fan interest is so low right now. Forget about comparing the team, excitement (or lack thereof), awareness, city size and prospects, name, etc versus 40 years ago or more. We were called Detroit Mercy with Perry Watson’s great teams (20 years ago) and Ray McCallum’s (10 years ago) as well. And the attendance was much better than now. Not great, not 5,000 per game like the Vitale era, but 2,000 - 3,000 (and much more for big games) versus under 1,000 now all the time. The team hasn’t been that bad the last two years either, and I think it’s more than Covid. We used to do game promotions and other things to generate excitement. As a big, long time fan, it makes me sad.
I also don’t think the coach is the issue if I had implied that.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Feb 20, 2022 16:12:08 GMT -5
I don’t understand why the fan interest is so low right now. Forget about comparing the team, excitement, awareness, city size and prospects, name, etc versus 40 years ago or more, we were called Detroit Mercy with Perry Watson’s great teams (20 years ago) and Ray McCallum’s (10 years ago) as well. And the attendance was much better than now. Not great, not 5,000 per game like the Vitale era, but 2,000 - 3,000 (and much more for big games) versus under 1,000 now all the time. The team hasn’t been that bad the last two years either, and I think it’s more than Covid. We used to do game promotions and other things to generate excitement. As a big, long time fan, It it makes me sad. Attendance is down generally in mid-major circles. Covid hasn’t helped. Perry Watson convinced the University to allow the basketball program to be branded as “Detroit Titans” (because it was detrimental to recruiting and scheduling). Staffing in the marketing & promotions area as been a revolving door at UDM in recent years. Simple no or low cost ideas (e.g., HS band days) are not acted on. Other Horizon schools give tons of free tickets away for targeted games, such a suggestion is considered heresy at Calihan. Not really fan friendly, you have to pay for parking (not the case at OU), no concessions, gift shop closed, etc. M&P in general seems like an afterthought, when in my opinion it needs to be elevated to a major priority.
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Post by rc on Feb 20, 2022 16:16:18 GMT -5
If you’re going to support a D1 program, you need to spend the money to promote it. Even when they aren’t great. But the apathy right now is so disappointing to me.
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Post by Commissioner on Feb 20, 2022 18:21:37 GMT -5
I don’t understand why the fan interest is so low right now. Forget about comparing the team, excitement, awareness, city size and prospects, name, etc versus 40 years ago or more, we were called Detroit Mercy with Perry Watson’s great teams (20 years ago) and Ray McCallum’s (10 years ago) as well. And the attendance was much better than now. Not great, not 5,000 per game like the Vitale era, but 2,000 - 3,000 (and much more for big games) versus under 1,000 now all the time. The team hasn’t been that bad the last two years either, and I think it’s more than Covid. We used to do game promotions and other things to generate excitement. As a big, long time fan, It it makes me sad. Attendance is down generally in mid-major circles. Covid hasn’t helped. Perry Watson convinced the University to allow the basketball program to be branded as “Detroit Titans” (because it was detrimental to recruiting and scheduling). Staffing in the marketing & promotions area as been a revolving door at UDM in recent years. Simple no or low cost ideas (e.g., HS band days) are not acted on. Other Horizon schools give tons of free tickets away for targeted games, that is considered heresy at Calihan. Not really fan friendly, you have to pay for parking (not the case at OU), no concessions, gift shop closed, etc. M&P in general seems like an afterthought, when in my opinion it needs to be elevated to a major priority. Right. Compare this to my last road experience, at Robt. Morris 11 days ago. Free parking; full concessions (and good concessions--Chic-Fil-A and premium beers); gift shop open; free posters (turned ours down); they did have a mask policy, but they gave you one free if you didn't have one, and it was not really enforced and no nagging about it; lively pep band (yes, I know we've had our band there this weekend). Unless you're a die hard Titan fan, why go to a game at Calihan Hall this year? I was introduced to the Titans years ago because my dad took me to see a great player--Spencer Haywood. Why would a father take his son to a Titan game this year to see another great player? The kid has to be masked, you can't even buy him a hot dog or coke, some of the most fun seats (from a kid's perspective) are closed off. I don't think the Coach is the problem, but it would also help to have someone who went around town stuffing free tickets in people's pockets, talking up games, and waving the flag everywhere possible.
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Post by fan on Feb 20, 2022 18:37:36 GMT -5
Dick Vitale ran around giving away free tickets, even for big home games like North Carolina, so did PW at Joe Dumars and the Basketball Planet.
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Loyola
Feb 20, 2022 19:18:17 GMT -5
Post by Commissioner on Feb 20, 2022 19:18:17 GMT -5
Dick Vitale ran around giving away free tickets, even for big home games like North Carolina, so did PW at Joe Dumars and the Basketball Planet. Right. Vitale would literally stuff the tickets into someone's brest pocket rather than wait for them to take (or turn down) the tickets.
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