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Loyola
Feb 20, 2022 19:27:45 GMT -5
Post by Commissioner on Feb 20, 2022 19:27:45 GMT -5
I agree with commissioner. We have problems, but the coach is not one of them. Things that could help turn this MBB program and university around: * A new university president that is not afraid to make needed changes (including hiring a young and thirsty AD). * Officially renaming the school the University of Detroit (I don’t think simply rebranding athletics is good enough. U of D sounds like a university with history and pride, whereas Mercy sounds like a hospital or dash school). * More development as far as student housing for athletes and non athletes. I know there’s been some progress, but we need much more. * An exceptional fundraising campaign. I know we just finished a campaign and hit goal, blah blah blah. But it wasn’t an institutional historic fundraising campaign by any stretch, compare what we did to other catholic schools of similar endowment/enrollment. It wasn’t exceptional and the truth is it was probably just average. * Renovation of Calihan Hall. We look like total shit on tv. I’m just being honest. We have bleacher seating with people splayed out lounging around like they’re hanging out at a greyhound bus station (this was true before COVID). We need to gut the floor level, add actual seats, paint the walls a pleasing color so we look like a place people want to visit and athletes see themselves playing. I realize that this would require another facility for athletics to practice and hold some events like fencing, but it is just a must do. * Get the brand done right once and for all and don’t change it. See the second point about renaming the university. Good news on the brand is that we wouldn’t need to pay a million dollars for a new logo. We already have the lower case old English “d” - just bring it back - $0 cost. Calihan Hall is a real problem. A lot of us old-timers like it for the memories, the closeness to the action, the clean site lines--and we remember the noise a reasonably full Calihan can generate. But picture it from a recruit's perspective: the dark, narrow halls, decrepit restrooms, bleacher seats, the unattractive approach through the parking lot... it makes nowhere near the first impression of even average arenas like the Wolstein Center at CSU (I can't say how things like the locker room compare). In addition to the type of upgrades Mole mentions, I wonder if--and I'm assuming we're not building a new place from scratch--you couldn't attach a new atrium entrance to the building, something bright and airy when one first enters off the parking lot, where we could also have a Hall of Fame display, championship trophies, photos, etc.
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Post by rbj on Feb 20, 2022 19:29:59 GMT -5
Myself and my older brother both became a long time titan fan due to free tickets my dad received at the Ford Rouge Plant in the fall of 1977.
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Post by ptctitan on Feb 20, 2022 19:50:13 GMT -5
For too long, the Athletic Department has been managed like the bean counters are in charge. We need a major change in attitude and energy there.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Feb 20, 2022 19:53:03 GMT -5
I agree with commissioner. We have problems, but the coach is not one of them. Things that could help turn this MBB program and university around: * A new university president that is not afraid to make needed changes (including hiring a young and thirsty AD). * Officially renaming the school the University of Detroit (I don’t think simply rebranding athletics is good enough. U of D sounds like a university with history and pride, whereas Mercy sounds like a hospital or dash school). * More development as far as student housing for athletes and non athletes. I know there’s been some progress, but we need much more. * An exceptional fundraising campaign. I know we just finished a campaign and hit goal, blah blah blah. But it wasn’t an institutional historic fundraising campaign by any stretch, compare what we did to other catholic schools of similar endowment/enrollment. It wasn’t exceptional and the truth is it was probably just average. * Renovation of Calihan Hall. We look like total shit on tv. I’m just being honest. We have bleacher seating with people splayed out lounging around like they’re hanging out at a greyhound bus station (this was true before COVID). We need to gut the floor level, add actual seats, paint the walls a pleasing color so we look like a place people want to visit and athletes see themselves playing. I realize that this would require another facility for athletics to practice and hold some events like fencing, but it is just a must do. * Get the brand done right once and for all and don’t change it. See the second point about renaming the university. Good news on the brand is that we wouldn’t need to pay a million dollars for a new logo. We already have the lower case old English “d” - just bring it back - $0 cost. Calihan Hall is a real problem. A lot of us old-timers like it for the memories, the closeness to the action, the clean site lines--and we remember the noise a reasonably full Calihan can generate. But picture it from a recruit's perspective: the dark, narrow halls, decrepit restrooms, bleacher seats, the unattractive approach through the parking lot... it makes nowhere near the first impression of even average arenas like the Wolstein Center at CSU (I can't say how things like the locker room compare). In addition to the type of upgrades Mole mentions, I wonder if--and I'm assuming we're not building a new place from scratch--you couldn't attach a new atrium entrance to the building, something bright and airy when one first enters off the parking lot, where we could also have a Hall of Fame display, championship trophies, photos, etc. Following Loyola’s 2010-11 season, the interior of Gentile Arena was gutted and the facility was given state-of-the-art upgrades during a six-month transformation that radically changed the look of the facility. Those changes included the installation of nearly 2,000 chairback seats, new concession stands, restrooms, locker rooms, hospitality areas and a brand-new playing floor. I remember seeing the before/after photos and was really impressed how the chairback seats improved the look. There was talk a couple years ago about replacing the bleachers at Calihan, but that seems to have gotten pushed down the to-do list. I think that’s where you would get the most bang for your buck in all the renovations being discussed. You might be able to keep the bleachers in the end zones.
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Loyola
Feb 20, 2022 20:02:50 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Rogobob77 on Feb 20, 2022 20:02:50 GMT -5
Coach Davis really seemed to enjoy doing the weekly radio show a couple seasons ago, then it mysteriously went away. Not sure if the discontinuation had to do with Coach, the Athletic Department, sponsorship or the radio station, but wish it could be brought back for next season. The broadcast could originate from the Student Union (currently under renovation) or one of the new spots near campus (Detroit Brewery Works on Livernois or the Detroit Pizza Bar on McNichols for example). Current Communication Studies majors could help with technical aspects of the broadcast, that would be a way perhaps to generate a bit of interest especially if situated on campus with students able to be part of the audience. Oakland’s Kampe does a regular radio show, not sure if there is something like that at Loyola. Gates at Cleveland St. has a regular radio show.
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Post by hyperion on Feb 20, 2022 20:28:33 GMT -5
NOTE: This quote is not aimed at RC or Up or what they've said in this thread. I'm really using this to touch on an attitude that surfaces here and there in various threads among various posters, and posting it in light of what appear to be the faint rumblings of a "fire the coach" movement. Changing coaches now would be foolish. Our problem is not the coach, it's the University. By that, I mean an inept athletic department, an inept pr department, and the apparent determination of the Board to destroy the brand at all costs. Tne University has a considerably smaller undergrad enrollment than it did when Dave DeBusschere and Bob Calihan were around, and one that is considerably more female (and try as one might to deny it, the reality is that male students are more interested in their school's athletic teams). But I also mean things over which the University has little or no control--a city that has less than half the population it had when Jim Harding and Dick Vitale were hired; a city that is, correspondingly, no longer the recruiting mecca it was when Perry Watson was hired; weather that is unappealing to many recruits, and an area around that, within a short distance of campus, is shockingly run down. Academically, the University may be in the worst possible place for its athletic recruiting--selective and demanding enough to exclude a number potential recruits (certainly more than any team in our conference), but not a nationally recognized academic star like the schools in the Ivy or Patriot, or a Davidson, Duke, or Stanford, whose academic brand can attract certain recruits. As for the program, we had been nationally ranked less than 18 months before Dick Vitale was hired. When Mike Davis was hired, it had been nearly 40 years since we were nationally ranked. Perhaps that says enough. There is still a lingering mindset in some quarters that the current situation is a strange aberration, like a 24 hour stomach bug, and we'll soon be back where we belong, hosting Notre Dame and Villanova and being a player on the national scene. It just ain't so. It's been a tough process but we're making slow headway. Loyola's turnaround didn't happen overnight, but it did happen relatively quickly. It took Butler well over a decade of sustained success, including a pair of final four appearances, to move into the top ranks of college hoops. Xavier dominated the MCC for well over a decade before moving to the A10. Gonzaga invested heavily for a decade before some surprising NCAA tournament success got them attention, and there was no small amount of luck in their being able to capitalize on that. The idea that we're just a coach away from a return to glory is foolish. This is a long haul, and people need to be in it for the long haul. Commissioner, I respectfully disagree with your sentiment as it relates to our situation. Our current situation simply does not pass the smell test. I agree that it may take near a decade to establish sustained success, however, there needs to be very early signs of building blocks, weather this may be recruiting, solid coaching system, development of players, etc… Four years in, I just don’t see what is going to change for us in 4 years.
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Loyola
Feb 20, 2022 21:21:56 GMT -5
Post by udmperry on Feb 20, 2022 21:21:56 GMT -5
Geez guys? Loyola at the top of the board as a topic? I forget…..did the Mighty Titans play and win today in a very exciting and entertaining game? Were they led by our all time scoring leader with 31 and are they riding a long home win streak? Guess not so we have to talk about Loyola.
Or just savor the win? And The Grizzlies loss? Maybe?
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Post by Rogobob77 on Feb 20, 2022 21:34:19 GMT -5
Geez guys? Loyola at the top of the board as a topic? I forget…..did the Mighty Titans play and win today in a very exciting and entertaining game? Were they led by our all time scoring leader with 31 and are they riding a long home win streak? Guess not so we have to talk about Loyola. Or just savor the win? And The Grizzlies loss? Maybe? Empirical proof some members of this board are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. There were comments on at least seven different threads today, more on the WSU game than any of the others. You didn’t post a single comment on the WSU game thread! Your comment on this thread is what actually moved it to the top position in recent activity! A lot of the comments on this “Loyola” thread reflect concern that although the Titans were victorious today, there were scant few in Calihan Hall watching the action.
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Post by Commissioner on Feb 20, 2022 23:08:41 GMT -5
NOTE: This quote is not aimed at RC or Up or what they've said in this thread. I'm really using this to touch on an attitude that surfaces here and there in various threads among various posters, and posting it in light of what appear to be the faint rumblings of a "fire the coach" movement. Changing coaches now would be foolish. Our problem is not the coach, it's the University. By that, I mean an inept athletic department, an inept pr department, and the apparent determination of the Board to destroy the brand at all costs. Tne University has a considerably smaller undergrad enrollment than it did when Dave DeBusschere and Bob Calihan were around, and one that is considerably more female (and try as one might to deny it, the reality is that male students are more interested in their school's athletic teams). But I also mean things over which the University has little or no control--a city that has less than half the population it had when Jim Harding and Dick Vitale were hired; a city that is, correspondingly, no longer the recruiting mecca it was when Perry Watson was hired; weather that is unappealing to many recruits, and an area around that, within a short distance of campus, is shockingly run down. Academically, the University may be in the worst possible place for its athletic recruiting--selective and demanding enough to exclude a number potential recruits (certainly more than any team in our conference), but not a nationally recognized academic star like the schools in the Ivy or Patriot, or a Davidson, Duke, or Stanford, whose academic brand can attract certain recruits. As for the program, we had been nationally ranked less than 18 months before Dick Vitale was hired. When Mike Davis was hired, it had been nearly 40 years since we were nationally ranked. Perhaps that says enough. There is still a lingering mindset in some quarters that the current situation is a strange aberration, like a 24 hour stomach bug, and we'll soon be back where we belong, hosting Notre Dame and Villanova and being a player on the national scene. It just ain't so. It's been a tough process but we're making slow headway. Loyola's turnaround didn't happen overnight, but it did happen relatively quickly. It took Butler well over a decade of sustained success, including a pair of final four appearances, to move into the top ranks of college hoops. Xavier dominated the MCC for well over a decade before moving to the A10. Gonzaga invested heavily for a decade before some surprising NCAA tournament success got them attention, and there was no small amount of luck in their being able to capitalize on that. The idea that we're just a coach away from a return to glory is foolish. This is a long haul, and people need to be in it for the long haul. Commissioner, I respectfully disagree with your sentiment as it relates to our situation. Our current situation simply does not pass the smell test. I agree that it may take near a decade to establish sustained success, however, there needs to be very early signs of building blocks, weather this may be recruiting, solid coaching system, development of players, etc… Four years in, I just don’t see what is going to change for us in 4 years. Well, in terms of talent and coaching system, we're going to finish .500 or better in conference two years in a row, the first time that has happened since 2013. Our RPI (I'll use that instead of NET since it gives a consistent read going backwards) is currently the highest it's been at the end of the year since 2013, and is likely to go up with next weekend's games. It's frustrating that we haven't put everything together on a consistent basis, but I see progress. In terms of player development, it strikes me that Willy Isiani is a dramatically more complete player than he was when he arrived; Kyle LeGreair is making great strides forward; AD is a better assist man; Sylla looks like he is starting to emerge; Noah Waterman plays much better defense than a year ago; Chris Brandon got better while here. I think Matt Johnson is a more complete player than he was 18 months ago. The team's academic performance is no longer an issue, and there have been no off-court controversies, at leasst not publicly. I would love more rapid progress but this is a very tough job. I don't think that there is a quick fix.
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Loyola
Feb 21, 2022 12:34:47 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by rc on Feb 21, 2022 12:34:47 GMT -5
I agree, it should help recruiting going forward when you have players who develop under you, including the player from last year who left to go to play pro ball in Australia. I don’t see MD going anywhere and we shouldn’t replace him. Let’s try to get some stability and give him more time.
We also need to start the season better than we have under him, especially the last two where he had more talent. I do believe we have latent fans around but we’ve given them nothing to cheer for by starting out so poorly.
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Loyola
Feb 21, 2022 12:53:09 GMT -5
Post by uofdfan1983 on Feb 21, 2022 12:53:09 GMT -5
MD and staff are doing a good job improving individual player's games over time. Various examples have been given already. This will help us attract recruits. But the biggest boost we can have to improve recruiting, which will also create a bit of residual stir going into next season, is of course to win the League Tournament. If we do that, better transfer candidates will give us a good hard look. And same story with current juniors who will be going to summer camps and setting up recruiting trips for next fall prior to the November signing period.
Right now we have a few Program-builders, supported by some quality plug-ins (Akec, Johnson, McAdoo, Harvey). Waterman can be added to the Program-builder category because of how many years he could have here and his potential long-term impact. Add him to AD, Isiani and LeGrear. LeGrear will never be a star but he reminds me so much of some of the hard-working PSLers PW brought in. That positive feedback could bring in more Detroit Area 4-year players like him, some with a higher upside than he probably has. Either way, though, more players like LeGrear are vital to a Program. You need winners/workers who make a difference in the W/L column and want to be there for the long haul.
In short, if you rank the evolution of a Program as Stage 1 thru 5, and put Loyola at 4, we are currently at Stage 2. Winning the Tournament this season could help move us to Stage 3 in a year or two. Stage 4 will require much of the capital investment/student-athlete support system growth that we have discussed on various threads, and is a tough Stage to move into.
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Loyola
Feb 21, 2022 15:15:43 GMT -5
Post by motorcitysam on Feb 21, 2022 15:15:43 GMT -5
Good discussion. I think Davis is making progress in digging us out of the hole we were in when he arrived. I would much rather keep him and allow him to do his thing than take a chance on an unknown at this time. Just a reminder, we've already got a couple of threads going if you want to talk about the Ramblers. There is on in the Horizon League section from when Loyola was a member. More recent Loyola discussions have happened in the MVC Notes thread in the Other College Hoops section. udtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/thread/407/mvc-notesudtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/thread/26/loyola-chicago
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Post by udballer on Feb 21, 2022 16:20:37 GMT -5
Firing Davis would be silly at this point. Nearly as silly as the idea of hiring his son. I'm still concerned that he may be leaving in the next couple of years. If that happens, I'll add my Mike Thomas comments and push forward.
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Loyola
Feb 21, 2022 16:20:42 GMT -5
Post by JDetroitTitan on Feb 21, 2022 16:20:42 GMT -5
Good discussion. I think Davis is making progress in digging us out of the hole we were in when he arrived. I would much rather keep him and allow him to do his thing than take a chance on an unknown at this time. I agree with this and feel his best years for coaching this program are still ahead of him. The last two years we have looked good in conference for the most part. Covid has hurt us this year and last year. This year we possibly still be in the run for first place with four out of the five games that were cancelled look to be easy wins with one being a question mark. We win all we would be neck and neck with Cleveland with two games to go. Last year we had the third best winning percentage and got screwed by the HL ranking system. That game against the NKU would of been at home in the tournament and could of had a big affect on the result of that game (the way we play at home is different than on the road). I like the direction and the players that have been coming here keep it up MD.
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Post by Commissioner on Feb 21, 2022 19:45:10 GMT -5
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