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Post by motorcitysam on Oct 29, 2022 21:17:29 GMT -5
Auburn gets the kid gloves treatment from the NCAA. Two game suspension for Bruce Pearl, four years probation, and NO postseason ban. The NCAA said that they would not impose a postseason ban on Auburn because the program self imposed a postseason ban last year. The joke about that is that Auburn knew it wasn't a post season team at the time it announced the ban; they were under .500 last year. Pearl gets the two game suspension, while former assistant Chuck Person gets a ten year "show cause". The NCAA does some things well and some things poorly, but it is the inconsistency that bothers me. www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/auburn-basketball-sanctions-bruce-pearl-suspension-probation-among-punishments-in-ncaa-infractions-case/As I mentioned before, it's the inconsistency of the NCAA that draws my ire. In this thread, it was mentioned how hard Oklahoma State got hit for their part in this case: Three years probabtion, one year post season ban, loss of three scholarships, and other penalties. All this for an assistant coach who reportedly took about 40 grand to steer players to specific agents and agencies. He didn't pay players to attend OSU, he didn't provide impermissable benefits to players, other than 330 bucks he gave to a player who paid it back. This coach was part of the previous regime, which means that none of the current OK State coaches or players had anything to do with this. Seemed like an over punishment at the time, and many observers stated that. Contrast that with the punishment that the NCAA recently handed to Memphis: A $5,000 fine, along with a fine equal to 0.25% of the men's basketball budget. Also three years probation. No postseason ban, no loss of scholarships. Memphis's crime wasn't related to the FBI scandal, but it was significant. Coach Penny Hardaway admitted to paying $10,000 to the family of recruit James Wiseman to help the family move to Memphis. Wiseman subsequently decomitted from Kentucky and signed with Memphis. Early in his freshman year with Memphis he was ruled ineligible by the NCAA due to that payment. Memphis basically told the NCAA "screw you" and played Wiseman in three games anyway. That seems pretty serious, however, they won't even notice the punishment the NCAA handed down. Memphis is a multi-time violater, with bad history going back decades. They hired one of the worst cheaters in NCAA history, Larry Brown, as an assistant coach. And somehow, they basically got off free while OK State got hit with a ton of bricks for lesser crimes. Instances like this is why a lot of people hate the NCAA.
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Post by fan on Oct 30, 2022 8:41:27 GMT -5
The NCAA always has had its "favorite sons" and schools that they look the other way. It goes back decades. Why is CCNY who won the NCAA and NIT in basketball purgatory and Kentucky a premier basketball school? Same scandal.
Larry Brown has been a "favorite son" since High School on Long Island.
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Post by titansforever on Oct 30, 2022 9:44:54 GMT -5
The NCAA always has had its "favorite sons" and schools that they look the other way. It goes back decades. Why is CCNY who won the NCAA and NIT in basketball purgatory and Kentucky a premier basketball school? Same scandal. Larry Brown has been a "favorite son" since High School on Long Island. Mostly because CCNY totally de-emphasized basketball following the scandal and now plays at the Division III level. Kentucky viewed it (and continues to view cheating) as the cost of doing business.
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Post by fan on Oct 30, 2022 11:01:34 GMT -5
CCNY, was told to de-emphasize, by the city, the school was part of NYC college system, which included Brooklyn, Queens, Hunter, and CCNY. The schools were at no charge to qualified students, I guess CCNY and the city were more concerned with academics and not basketball. Some of the eastern school involved in those scandals really never came back, LIU, Manhattan, NYU, CCNY, etc, Seton Hall is one school that seems to have sort have maintained a quality program.
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Post by Commissioner on Oct 30, 2022 15:00:34 GMT -5
The NCAA always has had its "favorite sons" and schools that they look the other way. It goes back decades. Why is CCNY who won the NCAA and NIT in basketball purgatory and Kentucky a premier basketball school? Same scandal. Larry Brown has been a "favorite son" since High School on Long Island. Mostly because CCNY totally de-emphasized basketball following the scandal and now plays at the Division III level. Kentucky viewed it (and continues to view cheating) as the cost of doing business. It should be noted that Kentucky got more than a "slap on the wrist." The program was completely suspended for one year--not banned from post-season or something like that, but axed completely. After sitting out the 1952-53 season, the Wildcats roared back, going unbeaten in 1953-54 (25-0, ranked #1 in the nation) but were not allowed to participate in the post-season. You can make a very good case that they would have won the national title in both '53 and '54. So it's not like the powers that be just "looked the other way." Adolph Rupp was effectively banned from Madison Square Garden--the Wildcats never played there again during Rupp's career, which went through 1972 (the ban was mutual--Rupp vowed never to play there again). And the players most involved--Alex Groza and Ralph Beard--were suspended by the NBA for life. Both would likely have had Hall of Fame careers otherwise (Groza was ROY in 1950 and All-NBA both his years in the league; Beard was a first team All-NBA selection in 1951), and they were actually part owners of the Indiana franchise, which folded after Groza and Beard were expelled--think how many millions that would be worth today. Another Kentucky player, Dale Barnstable, who was drafted but never played in the NBA, lost his job as a teacher and high school coach when the scandal became public. Bill Spivey, a big center who was still at UK, was expelled from school and banned from the NBA for life. (Spivey played minor league and semi-pro ball for years, and once, in an exhibition game, dropped 30 points and 23 rebounds on Wilt Chamberlain). Rupp may be the guy who got off easy--according to New York trial judge Saul Streit, "I found that intercollegiate basketball and football at Kentucky have become highly systematized, professionalized and commercialized enterprises. I found covert subsidization of players, ruthless exploitation of athletes, cribbing at examinations, 'illegal' recruiting, a reckless disregard of their physical welfare, matriculation of unqualified students, demoralization of the athletes by the coach...". Streit also credited testimony by players that Rupp showed them the point spreads before games and on at least one occasion complained that the players had cost a friend money. But in fairness to Rupp and Kentucky, many players came to Rupp's defense, with 15 signing a letter stating "We feel that Coach Rupp at all times sought to have us conduct ourselves as to be a credit to the University and to make us better citizens. ... The charge of Judge Streit that Coach Rupp deliberately sacrificed the physical health and well-being of his players is also untrue as far as we have ever seen or known of. On the contrary, Coach Rupp was very zealous in safe-guarding the physical health and welfare of the basketball players during all the years we were on the squad." No corroborating evidence was found to support allegations that Rupp engaged in, assisted, or ignored point-shaving, all charges which Rupp denied. This is not to say that the NCAA doesn't play favorites. I'm just not sure that the 1950s scandal is the greatest example. The reality is that Kentucky, St. John's, NYU and Bradley (4 prominent schools--and NYU and Bradley were very prominent at the time) simply recommitted to their programs, while CCNY and LIU dropped their programs out of the major college ranks (LIU returned some 20 years later and has been a low major ever since). NYU didn't de-emphasize the sport until a second scandal in the 1960s, and the other two schools affected, Manhattan and Toledo, didn't change much either (Toledo made the 1954 NCAA tournament, and Manhattan continued to gain national rankings and NCAA bids later in the 1950s). But it probably is fair to say that Kentucky wasn't about to fire Rupp--any fall out was "the cost of doing business." Just a little more background for those that like this stuff. I don't disagree with the general point that the NCAA is wildly inconsistent and seems to have certain favorites. And, by the way, somewhat ironically, note that Kentucky at the time complained vociferously that the NCAA was singling them out for punishment compared to other schools and other scandals.
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Post by ptctitan on Oct 31, 2022 6:45:48 GMT -5
I think the NCAA viewed the difference between Memphis and the agent-steering cases being that the assistant coaches like Person were charged with and convicted of bribery. I believe those convictions triggered an entirely different set of penalties. Hardaway and Wiseman were just involved in good old fashioned cheating. Good ole fashioned cheating is more tolerated when it is committed by power conference schools and schools with football programs. Otherwise, one could ask how UNC got away with the whole phony class scam for years. And why there hasn't been any worse sanctions against Bill Self and Kansas.
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Post by fan on Oct 31, 2022 10:41:34 GMT -5
Commissioner, great review (as usual), CCNY beat Bradley in both the NIT and NCAA the year they won both titles. About 10 years after the 1951 scandal NYU was in the final 4, the real shame is that they dropped D1 sports, it's a school that is big, that is rich, and in that market should be a D1 home run. CCNY actually came to Calihan in 1979, maybe in January or February. They were coached by Floyd Layne a member of that team that swept the NIT and NCAA, the assistant coach was Willie Hall who played for both Joe Lapchick and Louie Carnesecca at ST John's. That U of D featured Jerry Davis, Joe Kopicki, Terry Duerod, Earl Cureton, Rich McDermott, Jeff Whitlow, Keith Jackson, Dave Niles, and Wil McCormick. It was loaded.
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Post by larrytitan on Oct 31, 2022 14:49:39 GMT -5
Duerod scored 47 in that game against CCNY to set school record at that time. It had been held by Spencer Haywood at 45 and was later elevated to 49 by Archie Tullos in the famous Bradley game where Hersey Hawkins scored 63.
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Post by happy on Nov 2, 2022 18:48:49 GMT -5
Auburn gets the kid gloves treatment from the NCAA. Two game suspension for Bruce Pearl, four years probation, and NO postseason ban. The NCAA said that they would not impose a postseason ban on Auburn because the program self imposed a postseason ban last year. The joke about that is that Auburn knew it wasn't a post season team at the time it announced the ban; they were under .500 last year. Pearl gets the two game suspension, while former assistant Chuck Person gets a ten year "show cause". The NCAA does some things well and some things poorly, but it is the inconsistency that bothers me. www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/auburn-basketball-sanctions-bruce-pearl-suspension-probation-among-punishments-in-ncaa-infractions-case/As I mentioned before, it's the inconsistency of the NCAA that draws my ire. In this thread, it was mentioned how hard Oklahoma State got hit for their part in this case: Three years probabtion, one year post season ban, loss of three scholarships, and other penalties. All this for an assistant coach who reportedly took about 40 grand to steer players to specific agents and agencies. He didn't pay players to attend OSU, he didn't provide impermissable benefits to players, other than 330 bucks he gave to a player who paid it back. This coach was part of the previous regime, which means that none of the current OK State coaches or players had anything to do with this. Seemed like an over punishment at the time, and many observers stated that. Contrast that with the punishment that the NCAA recently handed to Memphis: A $5,000 fine, along with a fine equal to 0.25% of the men's basketball budget. Also three years probation. No postseason ban, no loss of scholarships. Memphis's crime wasn't related to the FBI scandal, but it was significant. Coach Penny Hardaway admitted to paying $10,000 to the family of recruit James Wiseman to help the family move to Memphis. Wiseman subsequently decomitted from Kentucky and signed with Memphis. Early in his freshman year with Memphis he was ruled ineligible by the NCAA due to that payment. Memphis basically told the NCAA "screw you" and played Wiseman in three games anyway. That seems pretty serious, however, they won't even notice the punishment the NCAA handed down. Memphis is a multi-time violater, with bad history going back decades. They hired one of the worst cheaters in NCAA history, Larry Brown, as an assistant coach. And somehow, they basically got off free while OK State got hit with a ton of bricks for lesser crimes. Instances like this is why a lot of people hate the NCAA. Let's see what happens with Louisville tomorrow. www.si.com/college/2022/11/02/louisville-basketball-ncaa-infractions-coming-thursday-2017-fbi-investigation-adidas-rick-pitino
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Post by motorcitysam on Nov 2, 2022 19:38:55 GMT -5
Kansas self imposed some penalties, trying to avoid harsher penalties from the NCAA.
What Kansas has imposed on itself:
- Four game suspension starting this season for head coach Self and assistant coach Townsend.
- Self and Townsend not allowed to take part in off campus recruiting activities from April throught July 2022. (Yeah, that's in the past. Did they actually stick to it?)
- Reduction of four official visits in the academic years 2022-23 and 2023-24. (Four total, not four each year.)
- Reduction of three total scholarships. (Sounds big, but that's stretched out over three years, so one per year.)
- Six week ban on recruting communications, six week ban on unofficial visits, and a thirteen day reduction in in permissible recruiting days days during the 2022-23 calendar year.
- No official visits for 2022 Late Night at the Phog. (That's the basketball kickoff event that is held prior to the season. That as already happened already. There were several "Unofficial" visitors that night, which is the norm. They don't normally do official visits at that event.)
So basically it's a slap on the wrist. There are items that they claim they've already done but are impossible to truly verify. Losing a scholarship per year is no big deal, as many programs go below the 13 scholarship limit to keep schollies available for transfer. No financial penalty, no post season ban, not even probation. And remember, at the Late Night At the Phog that immediately followed the breaking of this case, the event featured strippers on polls and Snoop Dogg throwing money at them.
Kansas fans are celebrating. OK State fans are getting mad all over again.
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Post by motorcitysam on Nov 3, 2022 12:28:16 GMT -5
Louisville also got a pass from the NCAA. Penalties announced today are lighter than what Kansas self imposed on themselves. - Two years probation. - $5,000 fine. - Two week ban on unofficial visits. - Public remprimand. So, in other words, nothing bad happens to Louisville for arranging a $100,000 payment to Brian Bowens family to get him to commit to Louisville. Also, Louisville and Pitino (coach at the time) are repeat offenders. NCAA oversight is a joke. If you want to know why coaches continue to cheat, even after they are caught, look no further than the lack of consequences. Unless, of course, you're Oklahoma State and Mike Boyton, who was responsible for no wrongdoing at all. www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34939286/louisville-basketball-former-coaches-avoid-major-sanctions
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