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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 16:45:34 GMT -5
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Post by calihanmole on Dec 8, 2020 16:51:49 GMT -5
Traveling around the country and playing basketball games during a once in a century pandemic is not the worst idea I've ever heard. Pretty close, but not the worst.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 14:34:43 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2020 17:04:19 GMT -5
Sounds like we're trying to schedule game(s) to replace this
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Post by motorcitysam on Dec 18, 2020 17:20:11 GMT -5
I'm guessing they will eventually try to make up conference games that get postponed, right?
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Post by calihanmole on Dec 18, 2020 17:24:59 GMT -5
Traveling around the country and playing basketball games during a once in a century pandemic is not the worst idea I've ever heard. Pretty close, but not the worst.
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Post by udmperry on Dec 18, 2020 18:25:49 GMT -5
Mole man. gochta big 10-4 on that. Love me the hoops but hate death and disease more. Wish it was worth the risk. But it’s not. Praying the vaccine gets out and the pandemic terror ends soon.
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Post by Commissioner on Dec 18, 2020 19:31:40 GMT -5
Florida's Keyontae Johnson collapsed on the court and went into a coma (he is out of the coma, BTW!), but that was literally months after he tested positive for COVID. A quick google search did not yield a single report of a college player being hospitalized with COVID. I've seen one report on a college football player being hospitalized with COVID.
There could be more, but it's obviously not widespread.
Remember Lacy James, a signed Titan recruit a few years ago? Due to some type of heart issue, the Titans wouldn't allow him to play and he was released from his LOI. He went to Rider, and then to Northern Illinois, where he did play and was quite good, never had health problems, and got his degree on a full ride scholarship. I'm not saying the Titans' decision not to let him play was wrong, or his decision to play somewhere else was right (I guess knowing what we know now--he was fine--I'd say that, but I wouldn't go back and second guess people based on what they knew at the time). I'm just pointing out that different people have different risk tolerance, and weigh costs and benefits differently.
There are risks in life, against which people should use reasonable caution. But "reasonable caution" is a slippery concept itself: Different people are willing to accept different levels of risk. Life goes on, and people need to live it with reasonable caution, as suits their willingness to take risks, and the benefits they believe they get from those risks.
Just repeating over and over, in what you think is a pithy way, that something is a bad idea, isn't the same as proving it.
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Post by calihanmole on Dec 18, 2020 20:51:59 GMT -5
I’m only repeating that because it’s poking fun at what another poster said when I suggested the NCAA should have developed a bubble system. I stand by the bubble idea - it would have been safer.
As far as acceptable risk, it seems you’re only looking at it through the lens of the players. I don’t see how they are playing college games in California at this very moment with their ICU availability so low. You can say the players take the risk but what if another player collapses like Johnson and needs an ICU bed? Heck, what if a player simply breaks his leg coming down for a rebound and needs medial attention and it takes away a nurse treating someone else? What if the players in California this weekend simply spread the disease a little bit more before they officially test positive? I’m not saying all games should be canceled right now, but some areas like CA make no sense to me. And, again, I think the NCAA failed by not developing bubbles. But, I can’t explain to you why you should care about public health or other human beings. Universities are not professional leagues. Above all we have a responsibility to promote the public good. That means producing health care professionals, medical research, running hospitals that help end this awful pandemic. It doesn’t mean potentially spreading the disease by playing games that in the grand scheme are quite meaningless. As universities we have failed society during this tragedy. In short, by playing some of these games the players are taking a “risk” not only for themselves but also others. Saying it’s their right to decide whether they can “live with it” doesn’t make it exclusively a personal decision.
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Post by Commissioner on Dec 18, 2020 21:38:22 GMT -5
I’m only repeating that because it’s poking fun at what another poster said when I suggested the NCAA should have developed a bubble system. I stand by the bubble idea - it would have been safer. As far as acceptable risk, it seems you’re only looking at it through the lens of the players. I don’t see how they are playing college games in California at this very moment with their ICU availability so low. You can say the players take the risk but what if another player collapses like Johnson and needs an ICU bed? Heck, what if a player simply breaks his leg coming down for a rebound and needs medial attention and it takes away a nurse treating someone else? What if the players in California this weekend simply spread the disease a little bit more before they officially test positive? I’m not saying all games should be canceled right now, but some areas like CA make no sense to me. And, again, I think the NCAA failed by not developing bubbles. But, I can’t explain to you why you should care about public health or other human beings. Universities are not professional leagues. Above all we have a responsibility to promote the public good. That means producing health care professionals, medical research, running hospitals that help end this awful pandemic. It doesn’t mean potentially spreading the disease by playing games that in the grand scheme are quite meaningless. As universities we have failed society during this tragedy. In short, by playing some of these games the players are taking a “risk” not only for themselves but also others. Saying it’s their right to decide whether they can “live with it” doesn’t make it exclusively a personal decision. People take actions that put others at risk all the time, every day. I would not underestimate the importance of people living their lives in a pandemic. It's by no means a perfect fit, but I often go back to FDR's encouragement of wartime baseball. People need a break. That's not a trivial thing, though it may not be so important to you. Things can always change, which is why Yogi Berra must have said something like "don't count your chickens until the fat lady sings." But right now, there is virtually no evidence that playing college hoops has put any stress whatsoever on the healthcare system. If it's made millions of people a bit happier during a depressing year, that is no small benefit to society. Oh, and on the "I can't tell you why should care about public health or other human beings"? We assume people here are good people and discuss things in good faith. You insult me or another poster like that again and you're outta here.
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Post by upbasketballfan on Dec 18, 2020 22:48:02 GMT -5
I’m only repeating that because it’s poking fun at what another poster said when I suggested the NCAA should have developed a bubble system. I stand by the bubble idea - it would have been safer. As far as acceptable risk, it seems you’re only looking at it through the lens of the players. I don’t see how they are playing college games in California at this very moment with their ICU availability so low. You can say the players take the risk but what if another player collapses like Johnson and needs an ICU bed? Heck, what if a player simply breaks his leg coming down for a rebound and needs medial attention and it takes away a nurse treating someone else? What if the players in California this weekend simply spread the disease a little bit more before they officially test positive? I’m not saying all games should be canceled right now, but some areas like CA make no sense to me. And, again, I think the NCAA failed by not developing bubbles. But, I can’t explain to you why you should care about public health or other human beings. Universities are not professional leagues. Above all we have a responsibility to promote the public good. That means producing health care professionals, medical research, running hospitals that help end this awful pandemic. It doesn’t mean potentially spreading the disease by playing games that in the grand scheme are quite meaningless. As universities we have failed society during this tragedy. In short, by playing some of these games the players are taking a “risk” not only for themselves but also others. Saying it’s their right to decide whether they can “live with it” doesn’t make it exclusively a personal decision. Mole I hope you are not driving your car anywhere as that could lead to an accident or putting up Christmas lights where a slip and fall could take hospital beds away from covid patients. There is not proof that the playing of games is causing or will enhance the virus. I think people need to make their own decisions. These are young strong healthy people playing basketball and hospitalization is probably a reach for them. There are no or probably will not be any statistics to show whether the people participating are at a greater risk.
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Post by ptctitan on Dec 19, 2020 6:49:23 GMT -5
There are two separate risks in this pandemic that too often get conflated: 1) the public health risk; and, 2) the individual health risk.
The public health risk involves the law of large numbers and should assess the real risk to the entire population and different large groups within the entire population. The individual health risk involves our personal risk of getting the virus and the individual risk to our health if we get it.
College basketball and the university system is a microcosm of the nation because the people generally at greater risk are in charge of making the decisions for the people generally at lower risk. The older we get, the more likely it becomes that we will encounter health issues that begin to weaken our immune systems and other health issues that make us more susceptible to more severe effects from this virus. I know many people who have had COVID. Most say that it is like a real bad cold or flu. It's unpleasant for several days. A significant number say that it was not that big of a deal. But if you're one of the small percentage for which it is a big deal or that affected person is your parent, spouse, child, or sibling, then it can be a big deal for you. But the biggest problem in college basketball with COVID is that the coaches, administrators and support staffs are generally more at risk to it than the players. As long as the people more at risk from anything are making the rules, they are going to default to protecting themselves by making the less susceptible share the response to their personal risk.
When this is over, probably 100 million people in the USA will have contracted the virus. Most will not have known it. But the consequences of our responses will be felt for many years to come. And when we are all mostly immune from vaccinations by next summer and we look back on the carnage caused by our responses, I hope we can still say that this was all worth it.
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Post by motorcitysam on Dec 19, 2020 6:59:07 GMT -5
I'm enjoying the college basketball season, but I would have understood and been perfectly fine with the decision to cancel the season. It's a pandemic. It's not a war taking place overseas, or driving a car, or putting up Christmas lights. It didnt just go away after the election, as some predicted. It's contagious and even if someone shows no symptoms or have no long term effects they can pass it on to others.
Of course, I work in a hospital with a packed ICU and an overflowing morgue, and I've lost people I love to Covid-19, so my perspective might be different from some others.
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Post by kevinudm on Dec 19, 2020 10:11:21 GMT -5
Student athletes are exposing themselves to significant risk by training, travelling and competing during a pandemic. Should these athletes be risking their lives solely to provide entertainment for others?
That's the question we're asking, and it's a bogus question proceeding from false assumptions.
The athletes follow stringent safety protocols and are regularly tested. At the first sign of infection they are subject to quarantine, and contact tracing leads to larger scale quarantines. Because of the regular testing infections are diagnosed early on, athletes are then closely monitored and appropriate medical care is available as soon as needed.
At minimum, these procedures mitigate any incremental risks of college athletics. It's plausible that they even leave the athletes at the same risk - or even lower risk - than the overall student population.
And the resumption of sports provides real value to the general public. With all of the reports of rising suicides and substance abuse rates during the lockdowns, televised sports helps maintain a sense of normalcy. Something to do when you're endlessly stuck at home.
Hard data may never be available. The COVID risk to everyone is real and includes the potential for long term harm, in addition to the risk of mortality. But statistically the risk to healthy college-age students is small, and I've seen no evidence that this risk is higher for athletes than for non-athletes.
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Post by fan on Dec 19, 2020 12:25:46 GMT -5
Mole; is not a college basketball player at less risk with his team in a structured environment, within close proximity to a college or university health care facility, then being sent home to sit this thing out?
Besides these players are big boys and girls, if they don't feel safe they don't have to play.
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