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Post by motorcitysam on Dec 4, 2022 19:15:23 GMT -5
Here's something I have been thinking about lately. I would like to hear your thoughts.
Chicago State is just one of two independents in D1 college basketball this season. Hartford is the other, but they'll be transitioning to D3 after this year. Chicago State left the WAC after last season, but their plan is to stay D1 and they are looking for a new home.
So, I'll ask: How about Chicago State to the Horizon League? And before anyone says "no, they don't belong in the same conference as us", let's remember we are talking from a strictly sports viewpoint. This isn't the MCC anymore, where we were with a bunch of Catholic schools with history and great academic reputations. Those days are over and they aren't coming back to this league. This is the HL of 2022. We're in a league with schools whose admission requirements are "less selective", to put it politely. So any thought that Chicago State would hurt the reputation of the league is probably incorrect. The HL is kind of the Island of Misfit toys already.
Yeah, Chicago State is a small school, with a little less than 3,000 students. It's true that it is not an academic powerhouse. But it has the Chicago market that we lost when UIC and Loyola left. They have a relatively new 7,000-seat arena that opened in 2007. They have support from advocates in the City and the State government. They seem to be making a concerted effort to improve the school in several ways. Their enrollment has grown. I know that the basketball team has put together some horrible records in recent years, but that seems to be improving as well. This year they have beaten IUPUI, Valpo, and Southern Indiana. They gave Marquette a tough game. They have 3 wins already without playing any non-D1 teams. If we bring in the Cougars, it balances out the HL membership at 12 schools, adding a team within our existing geographic footprint. If we don't add Chicago State, who does the league add that moves the needle?
Here's the other consideration: If the Chicago State doesn't join the HL, where do they go? And does our conference, made up of a bunch of Midwest mid majors, feel any responsibility towards supporting another D1 institution? Does our University, as a Jesuit institution that is also located in a major urban area, feel any obligation towards a smaller institution that faces some of the same challenges we do? Does lending a helping hand to a program that needs a break fit our Jesuit values? I wonder if that plays a role, or if it doesn't, should it?
Maybe the question is moot. Maybe Chicago State already has a landing spot in mind and just hasn't announced it. But if that's not the case, it might be a question worth considering.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Dec 4, 2022 20:31:00 GMT -5
This was from an article written a couple years ago, but it outlines that CSU has had some real serious problems:
“Chicago State University's struggles are daunting: It has half as many students as six years ago. The graduation rate has dropped to 11 percent. Hundreds of employees have been laid off, and the school may run out of money before the end of the semester.”
Don’t really know that much about CSU to tell you the truth, but I would want to make sure they have righted the ship before considering taking them on as the 12th Horizon League member. In the meantime, I wouldn’t have objections to the Titans scheduling the Cougars for non-conference games in basketball or other sports.
Not sure if Bellarmine has any interest in joining the Horizon, but that would seem to be a stronger addition based on a number of variables.
I thought I read that CSU had some talks about joining the OVC, not sure if that is still a potential landing place.
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Post by fan on Dec 4, 2022 21:46:06 GMT -5
It seems league membership has drifted away from "like schools". the Big 10 took Nebraska, which academically isn't on par with Michigan, Northwestern, Wisconsin or maybe any other Big 10 school. If Nebraska applied today to the Big 10 they may not have been accepted. As for the HL, certainly, YSU is not the toughest school in America to get into. Chicago State is not the linchpin to the Chicago market, but it is still Chicago that the HL needs if they want in and can qualify I don't see why not, perhaps in some small way it can help the school upgrade.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Dec 4, 2022 22:07:33 GMT -5
If I’m reading their team stat page correctly, Chicago St. has drawn 374 fans to three home games this year, an average of 125 a game. I know people who live in glass houses should throw stones, but it doesn’t seem like the school has much of a presence in the crowded Chicago sports market.
I’ve seen photos of their arena. It’s really nice, sort of reminds me of Eastern Michigan’s.
Southern Indiana (located in Evansville), a school currently transitioning to D-1, is averaging 2,311 fans for their home games. They have a brand new arena. Enrollment of 9,000+. They ended up in the OVC. I have to assume they might have joined the Horizon if the league was interested.
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Post by fan on Dec 5, 2022 12:23:37 GMT -5
The attendance issue for the HL certainly isn't its strong suit. I don't know the strongest attendance member schools in the HL, maybe NKU or Wright State, I don't think YSU or CSU do well nor do the Wisconsin dash schools. UDM let the interest in the school and program diminish, it has happened to other t certainly schools, like LaSalle, even St Johns and maybe DePaul. But certainly, there is a path back for UDM, to follow St Louis or Dayton, and Xavier, it seems there is no path for Chicago State. The only value Chicago State would have for the HL is to "inventory" them as a member in the event other schools leave the HL, so they have enough schools to stay relevant.
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Post by bigchuck on Dec 5, 2022 21:12:48 GMT -5
It seems league membership has drifted away from "like schools". the Big 10 took Nebraska, which academically isn't on par with Michigan, Northwestern, Wisconsin or maybe any other Big 10 school. If Nebraska applied today to the Big 10 they may not have been accepted. As for the HL, certainly, YSU is not the toughest school in America to get into. Chicago State is not the linchpin to the Chicago market, but it is still Chicago that the HL needs if they want in and can qualify I don't see why not, perhaps in some small way it can help the school upgrade. Interesting perspective on schools. One wonders how attractive we would be to the HL if we were to apply today. Brutal question that I am not sure I want the answer to.
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Post by motorcitysam on Dec 5, 2022 21:58:21 GMT -5
This was from an article written a couple years ago, but it outlines that CSU has had some real serious problems: “Chicago State University's struggles are daunting: It has half as many students as six years ago. The graduation rate has dropped to 11 percent. Hundreds of employees have been laid off, and the school may run out of money before the end of the semester.” Don’t really know that much about CSU to tell you the truth, but I would want to make sure they have righted the ship before considering taking them on as the 12th Horizon League member. In the meantime, I wouldn’t have objections to the Titans scheduling the Cougars for non-conference games in basketball or other sports. Not sure if Bellarmine has any interest in joining the Horizon, but that would seem to be a stronger addition based on a number of variables. I thought I read that CSU had some talks about joining the OVC, not sure if that is still a potential landing place. All good points. Thanks for chiming in. I read an article from this Fall that pointed out some dramatic year to year increases in the numbers of the freshman and sophomore classes at Chicago State, as well as a 6 percent increase from 2021 to 2022 in the number of students transferring into Chicago State from other schools. I think it's true that the school has had (and continues to have) challenges but there seems to be some encouraging news in terms of enrollment and grants received. I am mostly looking at them in terms of fitting in with regards to athletics. I don't think they are in danger of closing down or cutting athletic programs. I would expect there to be a thorough examination of the school prior to the HL extending an invitation. I know Bellarmine has been mentioned as a possible HL target previously, but I think if they were looking to join a new conference, they would have higher sights then the Horizon. And on the other hand, I don't know that Bellarmine in the HL does much for the other programs in the HL. If we are looking for schools to bump up attendance, I would think that a casual fan would be more likely to come to the Detroit vs Chicago State game as opposed to Detroit vs Bellarmine (wherever that is). That's kind of the same issue I had with the suggesiton that joining the MAAC would somehow be a boost to the program. I don't have any illusions that Chicago State would be a great addition and bump up the conference RPI. I was just thinking that the HL could use a 12th team in a good market and the Cougars need a home. And if both parties are interested, there is no red tape to get through to make it happen. In the case of Bellarmine and Southern Indiana, if they even wanted to join the HL, there are exit plans to be developed, conference bylaws to follow, etc. CSU seemed the simple fix, but I get that some might have concerns.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Dec 5, 2022 22:18:52 GMT -5
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Post by motorcitysam on Dec 7, 2022 15:46:35 GMT -5
Wow, that thread goes back to 2013! Thanks, everyone, for the comments on my question about Chicago State. I have no idea where they will end up, but I remember that a lot of HL observers were pretty sure that IUPUI would never be added, too. We should know something soon, even if it's that they will be remaining independent for awhile. Whatever happens, I will be rooting for Chicago State, for their academic success as well as their sports programs. Specifically, lots of young people attend classes there and participate in their sports programs; I am rooting for them.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Dec 7, 2022 16:49:55 GMT -5
The below linked article (from a year ago) mentions five potential league destinations for Chicago State, the Horizon League not one of them. “With less than ten months remaining before Chicago State University exits the Western Athletic Conference (WAC), athletic director Elliott Charles has been in discussion with several Division I conferences. The Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference, Ohio Valley Conference, Missouri Valley Conference, Summit League, and Southwestern Athletic Conference are among the conferences contacted, according to Charles, who is identifying conferences that mirror Chicago State’s level of competition and profile.” chicagodefender.com/chicago-states-next-athletic-conference-still-undetermined/
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Post by motorcitysam on Dec 7, 2022 17:59:59 GMT -5
The below linked article (from a year ago) mentions five potential league destinations for Chicago State, the Horizon League not one of them. “With less than ten months remaining before Chicago State University exits the Western Athletic Conference (WAC), athletic director Elliott Charles has been in discussion with several Division I conferences. The Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference, Ohio Valley Conference, Missouri Valley Conference, Summit League, and Southwestern Athletic Conference are among the conferences contacted, according to Charles, who is identifying conferences that mirror Chicago State’s level of competition and profile.” chicagodefender.com/chicago-states-next-athletic-conference-still-undetermined/The SWAC and MEAC make sense from a size and profile viewpoint, but both mean long distances for travel. In the Summit, they'd be going up to the Dakotas and out to Denver. OVC, closer destinations. I can't see the MVC accepting them. Of course, as fans of the Detroit Titans know, it's not where you want to go, it's who will take you. On another note, some facts on their schedule: The Cougars only have eight home games this season, and so far they are 3-0 at home, with three D1 wins. They'll make some good money on buy games, traveling to Northwestern, Marquette, Minnesota, Stanford, and Gonzaga. The Fresno State game, which closes their season, might be a buy game, also, and there could be more on the schedule that just aren't obvious. They've currently got the same number of D1 wins as the Titans and more than IUPUI, Green Bay, Oakland, and Robert Morris.
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Post by fan on Dec 8, 2022 12:30:17 GMT -5
If Chicago State is about buy is's maybe they should take it to the next level and run the program the way Gabe Kaplin did in that old movie "Fast Break".
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Post by motorcitysam on Dec 8, 2022 12:42:18 GMT -5
If Chicago State is about buy is's maybe they should take it to the next level and run the program the way Gabe Kaplin did in that old movie "Fast Break". A three point contest between Swish and Antoine Davis would be entertaining. Fast Break was one of my favorite movies as a kid.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Feb 3, 2023 7:38:40 GMT -5
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Post by fan on Feb 3, 2023 9:34:11 GMT -5
It may not happen for CSU, but they are forward-thinking. One of the keys in their thought process is to build the brand... hello somebody, that was built, not kill
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