Post by Commissioner on Jun 10, 2024 16:20:55 GMT -5
Sometimes getting history right can be hard--even just the basics, like games and scores.
The 1921-22 Titans were one of the worst teams in the school history, finishing with a record of 2-14-1 (yes, one tie--I describe that here udtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/post/40022/thread.)
In February of 2022, the Titans took a train trip east, playing 6 games in 7 days (it would have been 7 in 7 but the Titans' train was late for a game with St. Michael's College of Vermont. The Titans lost all 6 games.
On February 1, the Varsity News reported that on the Eastern trip the team would play Niagara, Vermont, St. Michael's, Albany Law School, and Union College. On Wednesday, February 8, the VN followed up with a report that the "Tigers" had left as scheduled on February 4, and would play a slightly different schedule: Niagara on February 5, then Geneva College on the 6th, Hobart on the 7th, Vermont on the 8th, St. Francis of Vermont on the 9th, and the Utica Knights of Columbus on the 10th, before returning on the 12th or 13th.
The following edition, on February 15, reported on the "disastrous" trip, with the Titans losing all 6 games. According to the paper, "Detroit enjoyed an excellent reputation in the East and was regarded by each of its opponents as the strongest team on their schedule," which was unfortunate as "the home teams outdid themselves, according to Eastern press reports." Playing 6 games in 7 days with train trips in between probably didn't help the Titans, either.
What's interesting to me are some discrepancies. I haven't yet found any of those "Eastern press report," except one in the Schenectady Gazette that reported in detail on the game against Union, played on February 11. It's quite detailed on that game, including a box score, but also recaps all the order scores of the games on the Detroit trip.
So here is what the Varsity News, Titan Record Book, and Schenectady Gazette Report, listing the games in the order each reports them played:
I have to think the Schenectady paper is correct on the order of the games, not only because, well, it is from Schenectady, but also because it couldn't report on the Utica KofC score if the game was played after the Union College game, as the VN and Record Book suggest. And the geography also suggest that the route of the Titans' travel would have them play Utica between Hobart and the Vermont schools. The Gazette's detailed report and box score also suggest that their report on the Utica game is correct. But on the other hand, the Gazette says that the KofC game was played on the 9th, which can't be if the Vermont and Albany games were both squeezed in before the game with Union on the 11th. So, who knows?
But there's more to that season, even beyond the funky game with John Carroll, which is reported as a tie in the Titan Record Book but a win for John Carroll in their Record Book.
The VN reported that the Titans beat St. John's (Ohio) 27-26 in January; the Record Book reports the score as 26-25. The Toledo News-Bee, like the VN, reports a 27-26 score.
Better, the Titan Record Book ends the season with the tie with John Carroll (which is listed by it's name at the time, St. Ignatius) and then a 27-29 loss to Eastern Michigan (using the current name, not it's then name as Eastern Normal). But Eastern's Record Book lists no such game, and the Varsity News is pretty clear that the Titan schedule ended with losses to Kalamazoo College (22-27) and Western State Normal School (now Western Michigan), by 22-29--or perhaps 27-29, as the VN reports both scores and doesn't provide enough game info to determine which is correct (one is likely a typo). The Record Book does record a loss to Western Michigan, but by a 21-25 score, in a game played before the "tie" game with St. Ignatius. Meanwhile, Western's Record Book records two games against Detroit, losing 25-31, and then winning at the end of the season 27-23.
Got that? The Titan Record Book has the Titans losing to Western 25-21; the Western Record Book has the Titans losing to Western 27-23, but also recording a 31-25 win over the Broncos. The Varsity News has us losing twice to Western (25-21 and 27--or 22-29). The Titan Record Book has us losing to Eastern Michigan 29-27, but Eastern has no such record. Meanwhile, the Titan Record Book does not include the game with Kalamazoo College at all, although the VN reports on it in detail.
Another fun note--the VN reports that the Titans had a game scheduled with Dayton for February 23, but the Dayton faculty forced the team to cancel its trip. Won't see that today. And of course playing law school teams, Knights, etc.
Yet another interesting fact is that the VN notes that some games were played one-half under "Western rules" (the norm for Detroit) and one-half under "Eastern rules." Rules weren't standardized until later in the decade; though as the name implies, there tended to be one set used in the West and one in the East.
Anyway, I was looking for some historical info for a project I've been working on, and I just thought all this was kind of interesting.
The 1921-22 Titans were one of the worst teams in the school history, finishing with a record of 2-14-1 (yes, one tie--I describe that here udtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/post/40022/thread.)
In February of 2022, the Titans took a train trip east, playing 6 games in 7 days (it would have been 7 in 7 but the Titans' train was late for a game with St. Michael's College of Vermont. The Titans lost all 6 games.
On February 1, the Varsity News reported that on the Eastern trip the team would play Niagara, Vermont, St. Michael's, Albany Law School, and Union College. On Wednesday, February 8, the VN followed up with a report that the "Tigers" had left as scheduled on February 4, and would play a slightly different schedule: Niagara on February 5, then Geneva College on the 6th, Hobart on the 7th, Vermont on the 8th, St. Francis of Vermont on the 9th, and the Utica Knights of Columbus on the 10th, before returning on the 12th or 13th.
The following edition, on February 15, reported on the "disastrous" trip, with the Titans losing all 6 games. According to the paper, "Detroit enjoyed an excellent reputation in the East and was regarded by each of its opponents as the strongest team on their schedule," which was unfortunate as "the home teams outdid themselves, according to Eastern press reports." Playing 6 games in 7 days with train trips in between probably didn't help the Titans, either.
What's interesting to me are some discrepancies. I haven't yet found any of those "Eastern press report," except one in the Schenectady Gazette that reported in detail on the game against Union, played on February 11. It's quite detailed on that game, including a box score, but also recaps all the order scores of the games on the Detroit trip.
So here is what the Varsity News, Titan Record Book, and Schenectady Gazette Report, listing the games in the order each reports them played:
Varsity News Feb. 5, Niagara 20-35 Feb. 6, Hobart 16-19 No Date, Vermont 21-39 No Date, Albany Law School 17-29 No Date, Union College 14-21 No Date, Utica Knights of Columbus 24-26 | Titan Record Book No Date, Niagara 20-37 No Date, Hobart 16-19 No Date, Vermont 21-39 No Date, Albany Law School 14-23 No Date, Union College 14-21 No Date, Utica Knights of Columbus 24-26 | Schenectady Gazette No Date, Niagara 20-39 No Date, Hobart 8-19 Feb. 9, Utica Knights of Columbus 22-24 No Date, Vermont 28-35 No Date, Albany Law School 14-25 Feb. 11, Union College 18-35 |
I have to think the Schenectady paper is correct on the order of the games, not only because, well, it is from Schenectady, but also because it couldn't report on the Utica KofC score if the game was played after the Union College game, as the VN and Record Book suggest. And the geography also suggest that the route of the Titans' travel would have them play Utica between Hobart and the Vermont schools. The Gazette's detailed report and box score also suggest that their report on the Utica game is correct. But on the other hand, the Gazette says that the KofC game was played on the 9th, which can't be if the Vermont and Albany games were both squeezed in before the game with Union on the 11th. So, who knows?
But there's more to that season, even beyond the funky game with John Carroll, which is reported as a tie in the Titan Record Book but a win for John Carroll in their Record Book.
The VN reported that the Titans beat St. John's (Ohio) 27-26 in January; the Record Book reports the score as 26-25. The Toledo News-Bee, like the VN, reports a 27-26 score.
Better, the Titan Record Book ends the season with the tie with John Carroll (which is listed by it's name at the time, St. Ignatius) and then a 27-29 loss to Eastern Michigan (using the current name, not it's then name as Eastern Normal). But Eastern's Record Book lists no such game, and the Varsity News is pretty clear that the Titan schedule ended with losses to Kalamazoo College (22-27) and Western State Normal School (now Western Michigan), by 22-29--or perhaps 27-29, as the VN reports both scores and doesn't provide enough game info to determine which is correct (one is likely a typo). The Record Book does record a loss to Western Michigan, but by a 21-25 score, in a game played before the "tie" game with St. Ignatius. Meanwhile, Western's Record Book records two games against Detroit, losing 25-31, and then winning at the end of the season 27-23.
Got that? The Titan Record Book has the Titans losing to Western 25-21; the Western Record Book has the Titans losing to Western 27-23, but also recording a 31-25 win over the Broncos. The Varsity News has us losing twice to Western (25-21 and 27--or 22-29). The Titan Record Book has us losing to Eastern Michigan 29-27, but Eastern has no such record. Meanwhile, the Titan Record Book does not include the game with Kalamazoo College at all, although the VN reports on it in detail.
Another fun note--the VN reports that the Titans had a game scheduled with Dayton for February 23, but the Dayton faculty forced the team to cancel its trip. Won't see that today. And of course playing law school teams, Knights, etc.
Yet another interesting fact is that the VN notes that some games were played one-half under "Western rules" (the norm for Detroit) and one-half under "Eastern rules." Rules weren't standardized until later in the decade; though as the name implies, there tended to be one set used in the West and one in the East.
Anyway, I was looking for some historical info for a project I've been working on, and I just thought all this was kind of interesting.