lafan
Iyapo Montgomery
Posts: 47
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Post by lafan on Jan 26, 2022 19:05:43 GMT -5
Loyola just left MVC for A-10. Given how bad the Horizon has become, moving to the MVC would seem like a good move for U of D. MVC would like to add major market. Travel costs might increase, but maybe we could forego some of the non-conference games at far flung locations to make us some of the $.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Jan 26, 2022 19:40:04 GMT -5
Loyola just left MVC for A-10. Given how bad the Horizon has become, moving to the MVC would seem like a good move for U of D. MVC would like to add major market. Travel costs might increase, but maybe we could forego some of the non-conference games at far flung locations to make us some of the $. Take a few minutes to watch this video providing very specific information on the kind of attributes the MVC is looking for in expansion candidates. There is a list of the top ten prospects for membership based on the delineated criteria. Spoiler alert, Detroit Mercy is not only not near the top of the list, they are not even on the list: FYI, contests UDM plays at “far flung locations” are our revenue generating “buy games” against major conference schools. And it is of less significance that you are in a major market if you are essentially an afterthought in that market. The Detroit Free Press doesn’t even cover our games.
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Post by Commissioner on Jan 26, 2022 20:08:33 GMT -5
Is the Horizon the only conference that allows its members to decide whether or not they wish to make up games? It seems every other league determines when and where games will be rescheduled…..even if it means that teams might play 3 games in a week. Detroit has been so totally disrespected by the Leagues decisions on our Mens and Womens schedule. That alone should be an incentive to get out and find a new home. I agree, what a poorly run league. Serious question, what are your top three suggested conferences Detroit Mercy should seek to join that they would have a legitimate chance of being accepted in? Realistically there are almost no options. We desperately need to win some games, and we need an administration that is seriously interested in moving. I very much doubt we could have gotten the MVC bid, but it would have been nice to inquire (maybe we did). We still have a large potential market that is not devoid of talent from which to recruit. MVC might have wanted a private to keep their private/public balance. Anyway, a very long shot, and I doubt they'll expand again soon. A10-- we have no shot right now. However, I am encouraged that they took Loyola. When Butler and Xavier went to Big East 9 years ago, the A10 made clear it wanted to keep its expansion on the east coast, moving south rather than west. Dayton and St. Louis have hung out here since. Adding Loyola suggest that they are willing to look west again. I would like to think we might talk with them enough to get a sense of what they'd want to see in 5 years time. They'll be at 15 teams with Loyola. Would they consider another midwest private to hit 16? Realistically, though, at the present time I suspect a conference like the MAAC would be the absolute best we could hope for. The Ohio Valley is an old conference that needs teams, but when Belmont leaves they'll be all-public, and the league remains in danger of falling apart (although it's encouraging that they apparently don't feel so desperate as to take Chicago State). We'd lose our local rival, it would be more travel. As bad as the HL is run, I can't see any advantage. Another remote possibility is the Patriot League. It's only real advantage is that its members are the kind of kids UD's parents would want UD to hang out with academically--Bucknell, Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate, Holy Cross, Loyola (Md) etc. It's a weaker hoops conference than the MAAC and is probably even more travel with the trips to Boston area. The Colonial Athletic (Hofstra, Northeastern, Charleston, Towson, Drexel etc.) is a better hoops conference, but again we'd be a total geographic outlier, and the league stretches from Boston to Charleston. The Summit is out there. It appears to have passed the HL in the hoops pecking order. Three privates- Oral Roberts, Denver, and St. Thomas. Tons of travel for a conference that keeps moving its geographic center to the west. That's why OU and PFW and IUPUI wanted out. The Northeast Conference--Robert Morris's old conference--basically has the same pluses and minuses as the MAAC, but it's not as good a hoops conference, and a better institutional fit than the Horizon but not as good as the MAAC. Members include Sacred Heart, St Francis I, St. Francis II, Mt. St. Mary's, Wagner, etc. with 1 state school, Central Connecticut. I'd rank the options MAAC, CAA, Patriot. But realistically, only MAAC even seems a possibility. It's not clear at all that that would be worth it, though (and without considering travel costs and such) I personally would probably prefer it, and the bad management of the HL makes it more attractive. If they NCAA were to abolish automatic qualifying bids, then teams would be free to roam around more, and there might be some possibility of cobbling together a midwest (broadly speaking) privates league playing at a level below the Big East. The core would be the MVC privates--Drake, Bradley, Belmont.Valpo, Evansville--with other candidates including Bellarmine, Robert Morris, St. Thomas, perhaps stretching on over east to St. Francis (Pa), Canisius, Niagara. But I doubt the MVC privates would see any strong reason to make that move. Bottom line--we need to win where we are.
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lafan
Iyapo Montgomery
Posts: 47
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Post by lafan on Jan 26, 2022 20:48:22 GMT -5
You tube presentation was very comprehensive and at the same time depressing for UofD in that UIC and NKU were in the final four selections and Wright State and Milwaukee made the top 10 for MVC membership. I also realize that non-conference games against Louisville and Mississippi State generate revenue, but the idea that they toughen up the team for conference play does not seem to be working.
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Post by fan on Jan 26, 2022 22:14:50 GMT -5
One has to wonder how things looked so good when the U of D was part of the old MCC, which really looked like a Midwestern Big East, and we're now looking for the best we can do is be so so HL member. Sad state.
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Post by upbasketballfan on Jan 27, 2022 0:58:58 GMT -5
I agree, what a poorly run league. Serious question, what are your top three suggested conferences Detroit Mercy should seek to join that they would have a legitimate chance of being accepted in? Realistically there are almost no options. We desperately need to win some games, and we need an administration that is seriously interested in moving. I very much doubt we could have gotten the MVC bid, but it would have been nice to inquire (maybe we did). We still have a large potential market that is not devoid of talent from which to recruit. MVC might have wanted a private to keep their private/public balance. Anyway, a very long shot, and I doubt they'll expand again soon. A10-- we have no shot right now. However, I am encouraged that they took Loyola. When Butler and Xavier went to Big East 9 years ago, the A10 made clear it wanted to keep its expansion on the east coast, moving south rather than west. Dayton and St. Louis have hung out here since. Adding Loyola suggest that they are willing to look west again. I would like to think we might talk with them enough to get a sense of what they'd want to see in 5 years time. They'll be at 15 teams with Loyola. Would they consider another midwest private to hit 16? Realistically, though, at the present time I suspect a conference like the MAAC would be the absolute best we could hope for. The Ohio Valley is an old conference that needs teams, but when Belmont leaves they'll be all-public, and the league remains in danger of falling apart (although it's encouraging that they apparently don't feel so desperate as to take Chicago State). We'd lose our local rival, it would be more travel. As bad as the HL is run, I can't see any advantage. Another remote possibility is the Patriot League. It's only real advantage is that its members are the kind of kids UD's parents would want UD to hang out with academically--Bucknell, Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate, Holy Cross, Loyola (Md) etc. It's a weaker hoops conference than the MAAC and is probably even more travel with the trips to Boston area. The Colonial Athletic (Hofstra, Northeastern, Charleston, Towson, Drexel etc.) is a better hoops conference, but again we'd be a total geographic outlier, and the league stretches from Boston to Charleston. The Summit is out there. It appears to have passed the HL in the hoops pecking order. Three privates- Oral Roberts, Denver, and St. Thomas. Tons of travel for a conference that keeps moving its geographic center to the west. That's why OU and PFW and IUPUI wanted out. The Northeast Conference--Robert Morris's old conference--basically has the same pluses and minuses as the MAAC, but it's not as good a hoops conference, and a better institutional fit than the Horizon but not as good as the MAAC. Members include Sacred Heart, St Francis I, St. Francis II, Mt. St. Mary's, Wagner, etc. with 1 state school, Central Connecticut. I'd rank the options MAAC, CAA, Patriot. But realistically, only MAAC even seems a possibility. It's not clear at all that that would be worth it, though (and without considering travel costs and such) I personally would probably prefer it, and the bad management of the HL makes it more attractive. If they NCAA were to abolish automatic qualifying bids, then teams would be free to roam around more, and there might be some possibility of cobbling together a midwest (broadly speaking) privates league playing at a level below the Big East. The core would be the MVC privates--Drake, Bradley, Belmont.Valpo, Evansville--with other candidates including Bellarmine, Robert Morris, St. Thomas, perhaps stretching on over east to St. Francis (Pa), Canisius, Niagara. But I doubt the MVC privates would see any strong reason to make that move. Bottom line--we need to win where we are. Do you guys really think there was any effort at all by Vowels or Garibaldi to try and get us into the MVC? I think both of them are too busy planning their retirements and exits from U of D. I think they do not care and are just looking to set up their next seat.
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Post by happy on Jan 27, 2022 4:40:38 GMT -5
Congratulations to all you have done AD Vowels and your staff for getting the updates to both the Titan Club and especially the public bathrooms. I can't wait to see what All YOU folks have done. Vowels needs to pat himself on the shoulder and take pride in this vision. He's smart and I don't underestimate his abilities and he's like a silver fox! Vowels has successfully made the right decision with regarding to spending on the bathrooms and making improvements necessary for the future of the program. After all you have to believe he's been involved with the discussions for getting the project off the grown. Plus, I am confident he's been AWARE of the conditions of Calihan, on probably his first month on the job if not sooner. Mr. Vowels your a great listener, I respect your determination for not given up and finally being able to address the problem with having budget issues since taking over the athletic program. He's putting the cart before the horse by making plans on how to spend the money before we are even certain that the money will be available. Not an easy task. I can't wait to see the improvement. A move to the MVC or A10? Not ready until we have the capital improvement completed.
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Post by ptctitan on Jan 27, 2022 6:49:05 GMT -5
Interesting that a thread on Covid cancellations has morphed into another thread about leaving the HL.
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Post by udballer on Jan 27, 2022 8:01:36 GMT -5
Interesting that a thread on Covid cancellations has morphed into another thread about leaving the HL. You're right. At this point it seems pretty obvious what the focus should be. At least folks on the board know what direction this program should be targeting. 👍
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2022 14:42:31 GMT -5
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Post by motorcitysam on Jan 28, 2022 15:29:47 GMT -5
The entire episode regarding the cancellation of the Detroit/OU game and both teams scheduling UMD is bad optics, at the very least. Be nice if we had actual news reporters getting direct quotes from the athletic departments of both schools regarding why this game wasn't rescheduled.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2022 17:12:03 GMT -5
The entire episode regarding the cancellation of the Detroit/OU game and both teams scheduling UMD is bad optics, at the very least. Be nice if we had actual news reporters getting direct quotes from the athletic departments of both schools regarding why this game wasn't rescheduled.
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Post by motorcitysam on Jan 28, 2022 18:25:00 GMT -5
The entire episode regarding the cancellation of the Detroit/OU game and both teams scheduling UMD is bad optics, at the very least. Be nice if we had actual news reporters getting direct quotes from the athletic departments of both schools regarding why this game wasn't rescheduled. Thanks for posting that. Given much of the info is coming from TP and Kampe, I'm not sure what to make of it. Kampe's comment about "70 years of coaching" seems intended to shut down questions rather than further explain. And I don't say that to indicate that I have all that much faith in Davis in this situation. Also, notice TP adds some pro-OU spin, excusing Oakland for playing NAIA schools by pushing the idea that the Grizzlies tried to schedule games with a bunch of heavy hitters. Given that the cancellation took place on January 5 and involves two schools barely 30 minutes apart, I find it hard to believe that the issue was finding a suitable date. There were almost two months left in the regular season when the game was cancelled. Why were just those two dates under consideration? Did OU suggest any dates? And the concerns about too many games late in the season and protecting your players? It's basketball. It's a two hour game with a max of 40 minutes of playing time. You're worried about the impact that will have on your players? Give them a day or two off from practice if they are that fragile. Heck we played three games a week in high school sometimes. One of the benefits of the HL is that the programs are relatively close together geographically. If they wanted to reschedule games, this conference is probably best suited geographically to make that happen. And the OU/Detroit game should have been rescheduled quickly, because the possibility for other games to be cancelled is always there, as we see this weekend from IUPUI. Indianapolis is five hours away. It would be harder to reschedule that one. And really, if the concern was always player safety, why not say that from the beginning? Why push the "can't play five consecutive road games" lie? Still seems more and more like the game was not rescheduled to avoid the risk of a loss. And that's just sad. I doubt it was the players making that call. Edit: Scout, you know my rant wasn't directed at you. I appreciate you sharing that article. I am just frustrated by the whole situation.
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Post by ptctitan on Jan 28, 2022 18:54:10 GMT -5
This whole issue would not have escalated if Kampe had not told his OU fan base via his podcast that an HL scheduling policy against 5 consecutive road games prevented him from playing us last Monday or Tuesday. Tony Paul then tweeted that excuse and that prompted replies that easily disproved Kampe's statement. So, now we know that we offered them two options. They declined both of them. We chose not to press the issue publicly because they had not forced us to play them on the original date. Nevertheless, Kampe sought to manipulate the PR about this issue by implying to his fans that he had to schedule UMD because HL rules prevented him from going to play us. So, Kampe and Paul are attempting more damage control.
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Post by udballer on Jan 28, 2022 19:41:15 GMT -5
I get this is the Detroit message board so we're teeing off on Kampe,... as we should be.
Let's not ignore this article (and the direct quotes contained within) also do a pretty good job making Davis look feeble as well.
It is what it is at this point. Two coaches scared to push the issue for fear of losing a basketball game. It's pretty embarrassing on both ends, in my opinion.
Now, I feel particularly icky so I'm going to take a shower. Let me end this by noting that Kampe has fake hair and was never a good enough coach to be a serious candidate to coach our team.
I feel a bit better now.
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