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Post by titanmac on Apr 1, 2013 19:31:44 GMT -5
Who says witchta is leaving?
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Post by apmichael on Apr 1, 2013 20:01:31 GMT -5
How do you spell independent, the Summit is not a option the school would never pay the travel, how about the league Robert Morris is in,
Really the one I'd like back east is the Patroit, if they could pick up a team in eastern Ohio or western PA we could be the western outpost
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Post by mooseguy1 on Apr 1, 2013 21:19:31 GMT -5
I don't want to join the Summit League. More like the Nadir League to me, unless you like playing in the Dakotas. But as Mac points out, no need to panic. If we end up with a busted Horizon, it might open up a world of good possibilities. Not saying I want it, but if we are going to be an upwardly mobile program, it might be the kind of opportunity that a new, forward thinking, AD could take advantage of. The fact is if Valpo, UIC and Loyola go, effectively we wouldn't have a league any way, and would most likely lose the auto-bid to the NCAA for a league championship.
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Post by Commissioner on Apr 1, 2013 21:28:19 GMT -5
How do you spell independent, the Summit is not a option the school would never pay the travel, how about the league Robert Morris is in, Really the one I'd like back east is the Patroit, if they could pick up a team in eastern Ohio or western PA we could be the western outpost Nice academic schools but a big step down in competition. That's a no-scholarship league, I believe.
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Post by apmichael on Apr 1, 2013 22:06:57 GMT -5
Admin: but Bucknell and Leigh, and Army might be a nice fit for basketball, and grant and aid ball players might offset the travel, I think that would be better than D11, and maybe we could add football. The Leigh coach is from MI, and he seems to get good players without schlarships.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Apr 1, 2013 22:07:00 GMT -5
The Patriot League initially had the same no-athletic scholarships framework as the Ivy League (except for the military academies, which offer a "free" ride of sorts). Recently they have introduced athletic scholarships in an attempt to be more competitive in attracting recruits. Membership includes the likes of Bucknell, Colgate, Lafayette, Holy Cross, Navy, etc. Academically the group of schools liken themselves to being just a notch below the Ivies. I would say the chance of UDM going to the A-10 is 10%. I would say the chance that we are going to join the Patriot League is about one in a million.
John Feinstien wrote a book about the Patriot League: "Last Amateurs: Playing for Glory and Honor in Division 1 College Basketball." A good read.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Apr 1, 2013 22:51:06 GMT -5
If Valpo, UIC and Loyola were all to leave (probably a long shot, but just speculating), the 14-member "New Horizon-Summit" merged conference would look something like:
East Division
Cleveland St. Detroit Fort Wayne IUPUI Oakland Wright St. Youngstown St.
West Division
Green Bay Milwaukee Omaha North Dakota South Dakota South Dakota St. Western Illinois
UDM would be the only private school in the group. Not where I would want to be, but I don't really see it as radically horrific compared to the current Horizon. It would be more geographically spread out for sure, but the two-division format would make travel manageable.
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Post by Commissioner on Apr 1, 2013 23:45:45 GMT -5
Gag me with spoon.
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Post by titanvoiceofreason on Apr 2, 2013 1:51:24 GMT -5
To those who dread merging with the Summit League: hate to break the news BUT we are already in the Summit League......... our Horizon League consists of 7 former Mid Continent/Summit League teams: CSU, YSU, UWGB, UIC, WSU, UW-Milwaukee and Valpo. Basically we are the "Horizon League Division" of the Summit League
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Post by apmichael on Apr 2, 2013 5:38:37 GMT -5
I have not doubt that Valpo thinks themself as the next Butler and is realy for the next move I can't see UIC going anywhere, Loyola and us are really in the same boat. I can see if the HL comes apart and Detroit and Loyola are stuck in it, down the road we both will end up in D11 or D111, a NYU, or Washington U type thing. I think if Ray leaves say back to Ball State the handwriting is on the wall, I really think the only option is the A-10, sometimes these schools think the sports program is just not worth the effort, like Loyola of NO did years ago, or SF, or Seatlte, I'm not saying it's going to happen but before all the league changes Detroit was comfortable in the HL, I don't see the school having many options to have that comfort level again if the HL comes apart, rogobob's posting above could happen and I don't see the school going there, spending $2M a year on basketball to play Omaha infront of 300 people.
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Post by ptctitan on Apr 2, 2013 5:41:34 GMT -5
Creighton has left the MVC. There were the constant rumors about Evansville leaving and returning to the Horizon League. There are also rumors about Wichita State leaving the MVC for a western conference.
Now, before we place all three Horizon teams in the MVC, remember that a visit by the MVC to a school's AD may be nothing more than an effort by the league's office to prove that it is exploring alternatives. The article was focused upon the visit by the MVC to U Missouri KC. If LeCrone were truly working with Evansville, these leaked visits also could be nothing more than the MVC's retaliation against LeCrone over Evansville.
Certainly, none of the schools being visited replace the quality of Creighton's basketball program. And if the MVC loses another school, the Chicago market makes sense as the eastern border of the league. Valpo, Loyola and UIC all fit that criteria.
I think that the biggest reason why we are not being considered publicly right now for any other conferences is the lack of an AD. Anything that Horn says right now is meaningless until the interim is removed from his title.
There is no school in the Horizon League that cannot be replaced by a better alternative. The Summit merger is unacceptable. But we may have to endure a season of it if we do not hire a new AD soon.
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Post by apmichael on Apr 2, 2013 6:35:15 GMT -5
I don't think LeCrone brings anything to the table when he's trying to bring quality schools into the league. He never can get a Dayton type school, a Evansville is about the best he can hope for. Now with all the talk of Valpo and/or Loyola leaving he's died in the water. He's down to the Oakland's and Omaha's of the world, he may have sat pat to long and events have past him and the league. I could see a Robert Morris having second thoughts about the HL.
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Post by Commissioner on Apr 2, 2013 7:53:34 GMT -5
This all drives home that we are just not that attractive as a dance partner. The A10's addition of GMU and heavily rumored flirtation with Davidson suggest it is looking east - and if Dayton and SLU split, that may make even more sense for the A10 - why reopen a far western flank with a relatively weak program.
If we're in line behind Valpo, UIC, Loyola, UMKC, and Oral Roberts, one can't feel good about the MVC - and we'd be a far east flank for them. There's one other basketball only conference in our area - the Summit. It's all fun to say that we've played in the Summit since the 1994 merger, but not very helpful - the current Summit is clearly another step down.
The remaining east coast leagues are also clear steps down, even the best of the bunch, the MAAC, so there's not much to look for in that direction. Robert Morris's NEC? Oh, the thrill of playing Bryant and Farleigh Dickinson twice a year.
And as for improving the HL, we knew we couldn't replace Butler with a team of equal rep. But it will be tougher yet if the league is perceived as collapsing. Why would an Evansville or Belmont want to join a sinking ship?
One supposes Conference USA or the Ohio Valley might take a non-football school, but it's not likely.
So we could well be looking at the Summit or, worse, the ramshackle scheduling alliance that the WAC has become.
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Post by titanmac on Apr 2, 2013 8:03:27 GMT -5
wow. the pessismism that runs rampant on this board never ceases to amaze me. does anyone really think the mvc is going to take valpo or "two" chocago schools? thats just not going to happen. valpo does not create an inroad into the chicago media market. noone in chicago cares whats going on in indiana. there is even less liklihood that they will take all three.
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Post by theoriginaljimmyc on Apr 2, 2013 8:03:56 GMT -5
To those who dread merging with the Summit League: hate to break the news BUT we are already in the Summit League......... our Horizon League consists of 7 former Mid Continent/Summit League teams: CSU, YSU, UWGB, UIC, WSU, UW-Milwaukee and Valpo. Basically we are the "Horizon League Division" of the Summit League I like to look at it like the Big East and A-10 are already the Horizon League with Xavier, Butler, Notre Dame, St. Louis, Dayton, Marquette, Duquesne, and Lasalle. Combining with the Summit league would make me puke. I know options to move up aren't great, but not the Summit. And not having a permanent AD isn't holding us back. The president will be making the decision and leading the investigation of our options. A strange position to be in when he heads the HL expansion committee, I must say.
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