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Post by Commissioner on May 20, 2020 22:06:04 GMT -5
How many players do you guys think we're allowed to have on scholarship? And again, though all this has gotten tossed in the Moore thread, I've said all along I get it re Moore, so that's not an issue. Moore was infernally inconsistent, but he actually produced. But you see, I like something in almost all these guys, too. I think they're all decent role players, or at least have that potential. Not just LeGrand and Nguidjol, but Isiani, Calipari, Rose--all of them have some abilities or potential. But if you want better players, you've gotta clear roster space. And "well, I haven't seen the better players yet" is equally irrelevant to the question. Why? Because obviously we need better players. That's a given when you're losing 23 games a year. But we only have a chance of getting better players if we have roster space. Personally, I'd much rather have Fraser or Liedel or LeGreair than LeGrand. Why? Because I know we don't win with LeGrand. I'd much rather have Waterman or Kuol than Nguidjol. Why? Because I know we don't win with Nguidjol. Way back when I was young, I came home from my first year at college and saw one of my old buddies from the tennis team. He was playing on scholarship at a MAC school. I asked him how the season had gone. He said they'd finished last, "but we've got everybody back next year." "That's doesn't sound good," I replied. He got it right away and we both laughed. When you're losing 23 games a year, you don't want to keep your same roster and hope they'll improve. Players do improve, but they don't all improve, and those that improve often don't improve by a lot. If LeGrand and Boe double their production next year so they're averaging a combined 10 points per game, are we on the way to winning the Horizon? And you ridicule others for anticipating better recruits coming in? I've been tougher on Davis on recruiting than almost anyone --maybe anyone--on this board. Right from the very start I voiced doubts about whether the style he'd adopted at TexSo would work here. Well, thank God Davis also thinks he can do better. If the only thing that matters is "bringing in better players" (which I don't disagree with) than 3 of our current commits don't exactly fit the bill. If he starts bringing in players like Pitino at Iona, he can boot anyone he wants from the team. I don't think anyone would disagree with it at all. Point is, when you need to start clearing roster space... I gotta believe you don't start with your better players. Moore is absolutely one of our "better" players though inconsistent. I believe that he'd have been a player who continues to improve. It looks like others believe that too or he'd not be hearing from multiple programs that are in better shape than ours. Boe showed a bit of promise at the end of the season, yet overall underwhelmed. I don't think his ceiling is all that high either, so I'd normally not die on that hill. Unless, of course, he's one of the only true frontcourt players on the roster and one of a couple who can actually snag a rebound. When you're lacking size more than pretty much every other D1 team... it's safe to say I wouldn't start letting those guys walk. I've never been a LeGrand guy and have stated so. To me, he looked like a D2 player. I'm fine with that move. As someone who sees something in most/all of these guys, what do you see in Hofman? Just wondering. I see someone who could be a conference 6th man of the year for Albion. I see 2 guards have signed LOI's that are most likely not going to be difference makers. So far, in my opinion all of our recruiting eggs are in the basket of an unproven 7-footer out of NY who was severely under recruited. I hope this house cleaning works out, but I can't bet on it. The only bet I'd make in regards to this squad is that AD ends his college career taking more shots than any player in modern history... and that sounds pretty ugly. Are you responding to me? Didn't my last post specifically note I agreed on Moore? Have I said a word about Hoffman? And we agree on LeGrand, apparently. So you're this worked up about Boe? No, that's not it either... you're "underwhelmed" by Boe, and don't think his ceiling is high. What the hell are we talking about, then?
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 8:54:13 GMT -5
If you want to try something depressing, scroll through the 2019 recruiting thread, especially all the stuff from last summer and the MBM's. I can't believe how many hours I wasted going through foreign/Egyptian rosters and double checking every day. Now I must be insane - I just spent/wasted a few hours over the past couple of days going through big man grad transfer stats, backgrounds and school locations searching for a clue as to who is supposedly coming in You are a true fan, my friend, and your research is always appreciated. :-) After finally scrolling through the last day or 2 of posts, it sounds to me like at least 3 posters know the identities to two of the other/new players coming in. I don't begrudge them for that - it's great to have contacts (or friends that work in Calihan and can poach the info and pass it on) or be in the select circle that gets that info shared privately shared with them. From what I've read, it sounds like neither player is a star, just better than some of the low D1/D2 talent (with Moore being the exception) that we're losing. This kinda makes searching for recruit's identities, speculating on who they could be, or adding to the 2020 recruiting thread an extreme waste of time and energy for me at this point, since the info is already known by many of the posters (who can easily reveal it once Coach or their source allows them to). Plus, the incoming players aren't stars, they're just good enough to possibly start for a bad mid major team in a weak conference, so why search only to be disappointed by a grad transfer center who averaged around 7 ppg last year (after the head coach built him up as a starter), when you were hoping for a star recruit(s) that could push this team to the top of the Horizon. Anyways, I'm not threatening a lame haitus just to return in a few weeks or a month - just airing some frustration with the time that I've been unknowing wasting for the past few weeks and explaining why I'm backing off a bit for awhile. Let's hope Coach comes through & signs some quality guys for next season (well there's no need to hope since some posters already know the answer). GO TITANS!
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Post by udballer on May 21, 2020 18:05:14 GMT -5
If the only thing that matters is "bringing in better players" (which I don't disagree with) than 3 of our current commits don't exactly fit the bill. If he starts bringing in players like Pitino at Iona, he can boot anyone he wants from the team. I don't think anyone would disagree with it at all. Point is, when you need to start clearing roster space... I gotta believe you don't start with your better players. Moore is absolutely one of our "better" players though inconsistent. I believe that he'd have been a player who continues to improve. It looks like others believe that too or he'd not be hearing from multiple programs that are in better shape than ours. Boe showed a bit of promise at the end of the season, yet overall underwhelmed. I don't think his ceiling is all that high either, so I'd normally not die on that hill. Unless, of course, he's one of the only true frontcourt players on the roster and one of a couple who can actually snag a rebound. When you're lacking size more than pretty much every other D1 team... it's safe to say I wouldn't start letting those guys walk. I've never been a LeGrand guy and have stated so. To me, he looked like a D2 player. I'm fine with that move. As someone who sees something in most/all of these guys, what do you see in Hofman? Just wondering. I see someone who could be a conference 6th man of the year for Albion. I see 2 guards have signed LOI's that are most likely not going to be difference makers. So far, in my opinion all of our recruiting eggs are in the basket of an unproven 7-footer out of NY who was severely under recruited. I hope this house cleaning works out, but I can't bet on it. The only bet I'd make in regards to this squad is that AD ends his college career taking more shots than any player in modern history... and that sounds pretty ugly. Are you responding to me? Didn't my last post specifically note I agreed on Moore? Have I said a word about Hoffman? And we agree on LeGrand, apparently. So you're this worked up about Boe? No, that's not it either... you're "underwhelmed" by Boe, and don't think his ceiling is high. What the hell are we talking about, then? Who is "worked up"? I think you're imagining that part, Commish. I'm simply stating that I'd have tried to keep 2 of the 3 and disagree with any decision to push those 2 out... if that's what happened. I realize that you agree on Moore, but that doesn't remove him from the equation of what's happened with transfers. Also, you responded to my comments regarding Boe & Marquis with statements on Legrand... which by your rules is equally baffling. 🙂 I brought up Hofman to ask your thoughts. He'd seem like a better option to force out if we're strictly looking to open roster spots.
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Post by udballer on May 21, 2020 18:11:11 GMT -5
You are a true fan, my friend, and your research is always appreciated. :-) After finally scrolling through the last day or 2 of posts, it sounds to me like at least 3 posters know the identities to two of the other/new players coming in. I don't begrudge them for that - it's great to have contacts (or friends that work in Calihan and can poach the info and pass it on) or be in the select circle that gets that info shared privately shared with them. From what I've read, it sounds like neither player is a star, just better than some of the low D1/D2 talent (with Moore being the exception) that we're losing. This kinda makes searching for recruit's identities, speculating on who they could be, or adding to the 2020 recruiting thread an extreme waste of time and energy for me at this point, since the info is already known by many of the posters (who can easily reveal it once Coach or their source allows them to). Plus, the incoming players aren't stars, they're just good enough to possibly start for a bad mid major team in a weak conference, so why search only to be disappointed by a grad transfer center who averaged around 7 ppg last year (after the head coach built him up as a starter), when you were hoping for a star recruit(s) that could push this team to the top of the Horizon. Anyways, I'm not threatening a lame haitus just to return in a few weeks or a month - just airing some frustration with the time that I've been unknowing wasting for the past few weeks and explaining why I'm backing off a bit for awhile. Let's hope Coach comes through & signs some quality guys for next season (well there's no need to hope since some posters already know the answer). GO TITANS! Thanks for the info, Scout. Your contribution is greatly appreciated!
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Post by uofdfan1983 on May 21, 2020 19:50:14 GMT -5
1) There are other factors that come into play regarding whether a player is the right "fit" at U-D, such as academic performance, effort (in practice, or during a Pandemic when you aren't supposed to be playing with other guys), team attitude, etc. We don't know all of these dynamics on every player. We just see them during GAMES and maybe catch them for a minute or two in the hallway after they shower and before they head out of Calihan. I suggest that Davis can be hard to play for, and I'm all right with that. I suggest it takes a certain kind of person to play for Davis, and I'm all right with that. That was the case with PW (only a certain kind of player would thrive under him) and look at what he did. I suggest that Davis should research his players (the entire person) more now (maybe not so easy to do with the current social and travel limitations) so that he truly gets to know the entire person he is recruiting. I do know that he is stressing competitive attitude/toughness during this recruiting period, something we lack. 2) I have no inside information but I do not expect Hoffman to be back. Again, I think we should all wait and see the final roster before reacting.
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Post by rbj on May 21, 2020 20:05:43 GMT -5
1) There are other factors that come into play regarding whether a player is the right "fit" at U-D, such as academic performance, effort (in practice, or during a Pandemic when you aren't supposed to be playing with other guys), team attitude, etc. We don't know all of these dynamics on every player. We just see them during GAMES and maybe catch them for a minute or two in the hallway after they shower and before they head out of Calihan. I suggest that Davis can be hard to play for, and I'm all right with that. I suggest it takes a certain kind of person to play for Davis, and I'm all right with that. That was the case with PW (only a certain kind of player would thrive under him) and look at what he did. I suggest that Davis should research his players (the entire person) more now (maybe not so easy to do with the current social and travel limitations) so that he truly gets to know the entire person he is recruiting. I do know that he is stressing competitive attitude/toughness during this recruiting period, something we lack. 2) I have no inside information but I do not expect Hoffman to be back. Again, I think we should all wait and see the final roster before reacting. It is hard to glean the characteristics you discuss a recruit should have from a youtube highlight video.
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Post by udballer on May 21, 2020 20:11:21 GMT -5
Be fair, RBJ. He also reads the user comments after the video.
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Post by calihanmole on May 22, 2020 17:41:24 GMT -5
First of all: CalihanMole, based upon your comments and disclaimers about where you live, how many times you have been on campus, your admission about lack of information etc. your moniker should be "Calihan UNMole".
Second: I am not expecting the next Spencer Haywood to walk in but the Coach's plan appears to be as follows: 1) ask players who are not fitting in from a Program/Effort/Academic/Talent Level to find a school where they will be a better fit. 2) recruit replacements who are Grad Transfers who have been through the wars to come in and lead by example (showing the remaining players how to work hard and how to win). 3) bring in experience at PG (ball handler/penetrator/defender) and in the Middle (space eater) and maybe one more Wing/SG who can score. 4) these Grad Transfers are all from U.S. colleges, I believe, so no need to check Icelanders, Egyptians, Polar Bears or Penguins.
Will it work? I don't know. But I believe in our Coach and am not ready to throw in the towel and start over again. It's not easy waiting, I know. Expect an announcement this week (see #3, space eater). Try to be patient and wait until the merry-go-round stops and we know what our team will look like next season.
Does the week end on Friday, Saturday or Sunday for you? Maybe the 5* space eater plans on telling his family about his commitment to Detroit Mercy on Monday over bbq?
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Post by udballer on May 22, 2020 18:21:47 GMT -5
Well, if he's any sort of "eater", the BBQ thing might make sense.
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Post by calihanmole on May 22, 2020 21:10:09 GMT -5
Well, if he's any sort of "eater", the BBQ thing might make sense. Good point. I’ll just watch espn all day on Monday and keep a lookout on the ticker for “Detroit Mercy” or “Space Eater” and that way I should be the first to know ... well, with the exception of all of the insiders here who already know.
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Post by nctitan on May 23, 2020 20:57:37 GMT -5
Not all schools have completed classes, gotten grades, etc.
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Post by calihanmole on May 25, 2020 14:53:10 GMT -5
David Langford has committed to Detroit Mercy. Welcome to Titan Territory, David!
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2020 15:56:49 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2020 15:59:29 GMT -5
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Post by ptctitan on May 25, 2020 16:19:08 GMT -5
So, in essence, we've worked a trade with the Big Sky - Moore for Fraser. Disappointing to lose Marquis. However, both Kuol and Waterman are bringing better 2019-20 3-point shooting percentages here. Waterman also posted 10 points and 5 boards last season against new HL member Purdue Fort Wayne. I was surprised to see that Marquis shot 29% in the HL from 3-point range last season. Thought he had a better percentage. But, I gotta keep looking forward. As to Mr. Langford and the space eaters, it does seem like science fiction that we could have two players 6'10" or taller on our roster for next season. The last meaningful Titan player at least 6'10" was Njoku for one season. Otherwise, we have to go back to the HL championship team of 2011-12 when we had Holman and Lowe. And last year's failure to land a big man was frustrating given that Davis had promised two of them at several points. Hopefully, we'll learn some more recruiting news in the upcoming 2 or 3 weeks.
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