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Post by motorcitysam on Jul 26, 2023 22:30:56 GMT -5
Colorado, which was in the Big 8/Big 12 from 1948 until 2010, is reportedly leaving the PAC 12 and returning to the Big 12.
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Post by Commissioner on Jul 27, 2023 8:24:47 GMT -5
Never thought I'd see the PAC-12 (nee PAC 10 nee PAC 8) fall apart.
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Post by motorcitysam on Jul 27, 2023 10:46:54 GMT -5
Never thought I'd see the PAC-12 (nee PAC 10 nee PAC 8) fall apart. Up until UCLA and USC decided to leave for the Big Ten, I never thought that the PAC 12 would collapse the way they appear to be doing. I didn't think there was a good business case to be made for the LA schools to leave the conference, but I guess the administration of those schools disagreed. That television money talks.
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Post by fan on Jul 27, 2023 11:24:45 GMT -5
The league has a geography problem, that manifested even more with media money, people east of the west coast don't watch west coast teams that much. It really hurt them in recruiting. UCLA and USC saw the chance to dip into Midwestern and Eastern money and exposure and jumped at it. That was the end of the PAC 10/12. The money and exposure I guess make good business sense. I would think the ND/USC game is USC's biggest national exposure game is football, and they have nothing like that in basketball. USC playing MI, or OSU, or even Iowa is a big deal.
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Post by motorcitysam on Jul 27, 2023 19:00:24 GMT -5
The league has a geography problem, that manifested even more with media money, people east of the west coast don't watch west coast teams that much. It really hurt them in recruiting. UCLA and USC saw the chance to dip into Midwestern and Eastern money and exposure and jumped at it. That was the end of the PAC 10/12. The money and exposure I guess make good business sense. I would think the ND/USC game is USC's biggest national exposure game is football, and they have nothing like that in basketball. USC playing MI, or OSU, or even Iowa is a big deal. Those are good points. I think the geography is only a problem as it relates to making the absolute much money on television deals as possible. It didn't stop the schools from making a ton of money. I don't know if the move to the Big Ten will help recruiting for football and basketball; it looks like NIL will be the driving force in recruiting, unless some serious reform and restrictions are brought in. I understand UCLA and USC making the move to the Big Ten for the immediate benefit of a larger check from the TV deal. I don't think the move does much for the California schools in any other area. Certainly doesn't help the student's academic concerns and work/school/life balance, considering the extra travel time. Money rules. It seems like the idea of conferences themselves are becoming obsolete, other than for leverage for a television deal. That's fine for the schools, but the idea of conference teams working together for the good of all members is a thing of the past. It's one thing for a school like Houston to want to jump from the AAC to the Big 12, or Xavier jumping to the Big East. Both of those moves make geographic sense, and it's a step up in conference level. UCLA and USC to the Big Ten is just a money move, nothing more, with the focus only being on "what's best for me". The "all for one and one for all" conference days are over. The "me only" attitude that fans criticize players for is even more apparent in University presidents and ADs. Coincidentally, I caught a discussion on the ESPN radio affiliate in Arizona today about Colorado's move and the state of the PAC 12. One of the things the PAC 12 league president is being criticized for is entering in to that alliance a few years ago with the Big Ten and ACC, where all three leagues promised not to poach from each other. Of course, the Big Ten stabbed the PAC 12 in the back, even with the alliance in place, but I don't know if you can blame the PAC 12 league leadership for expecting the other leagues in the alliance to abide by it. Options discussed for the PAC 12 (besides San Diego State) are UNLV, Boise State, SMU, and other schools on that level. It's going to get ugly in the Conference of Champions.
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Post by motorcitysam on Jul 27, 2023 19:02:30 GMT -5
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Post by larrytitan on Jul 28, 2023 7:30:14 GMT -5
No tears for the big conferences. They have created this monster that they now cannot control.
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Post by fan on Jul 28, 2023 7:54:44 GMT -5
They have let Genie out of the bottle, what may have started as a tool to solidify scheduling, has certainly evolved into some crazy times.
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Post by Commissioner on Jul 28, 2023 15:43:48 GMT -5
The league has a geography problem, that manifested even more with media money, people east of the west coast don't watch west coast teams that much. It really hurt them in recruiting. UCLA and USC saw the chance to dip into Midwestern and Eastern money and exposure and jumped at it. That was the end of the PAC 10/12. The money and exposure I guess make good business sense. I would think the ND/USC game is USC's biggest national exposure game is football, and they have nothing like that in basketball. USC playing MI, or OSU, or even Iowa is a big deal. Those are good points. I think the geography is only a problem as it relates to making the absolute much money on television deals as possible. It didn't stop the schools from making a ton of money. I don't know if the move to the Big Ten will help recruiting for football and basketball; it looks like NIL will be the driving force in recruiting, unless some serious reform and restrictions are brought in. I understand UCLA and USC making the move to the Big Ten for the immediate benefit of a larger check from the TV deal. I don't think the move does much for the California schools in any other area. Certainly doesn't help the student's academic concerns and work/school/life balance, considering the extra travel time. Money rules. It seems like the idea of conferences themselves are becoming obsolete, other than for leverage for a television deal. That's fine for the schools, but the idea of conference teams working together for the good of all members is a thing of the past. It's one thing for a school like Houston to want to jump from the AAC to the Big 12, or Xavier jumping to the Big East. Both of those moves make geographic sense, and it's a step up in conference level. UCLA and USC to the Big Ten is just a money move, nothing more, with the focus only being on "what's best for me". The "all for one and one for all" conference days are over. The "me only" attitude that fans criticize players for is even more apparent in University presidents and ADs. Coincidentally, I caught a discussion on the ESPN radio affiliate in Arizona today about Colorado's move and the state of the PAC 12. One of the things the PAC 12 league president is being criticized for is entering in to that alliance a few years ago with the Big Ten and ACC, where all three leagues promised not to poach from each other. Of course, the Big Ten stabbed the PAC 12 in the back, even with the alliance in place, but I don't know if you can blame the PAC 12 league leadership for expecting the other leagues in the alliance to abide by it. Options discussed for the PAC 12 (besides San Diego State) are UNLV, Boise State, SMU, and other schools on that level. It's going to get ugly in the Conference of Champions. Yup. The idea of a conference as generally similar schools, with similar academic aspirations, and with some geographic proximity is pretty much gone. Some of the lesser conferences still have that (the MAC is a great example) but even there it's being eroded as stronger conferences cherry pick and lower conferences backfill with whomever they can get. Oddly, the Horizon still pretty much meets the old idea of a conference, with the Titans (and now, to a lesser extent perhaps, Bob Morris) as the outliers. It's a bunch of large, second tier (one might even argue third tier) state universities, increasingly located in second-tier cities, usually with a large number of commuter students, and less selective in admissions. Quite a change from the days when it was the MCC, a group of private, small-to-mid-sized universities, with a considerable Catholic flavor, most sporting solid if unexceptional academic reputations. I think a series of books were written about the Titans:
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Post by fan on Jul 28, 2023 15:52:11 GMT -5
Maybe not Left Behind, more like they missed the bus...............
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Post by motorcitysam on Aug 2, 2023 15:46:36 GMT -5
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Post by fan on Aug 3, 2023 4:41:37 GMT -5
The genie may be out of the bottle with USC/UCLA coming to the Big Ten, but the league might be better served by not loading up with West Coast teams, maybe adding just Stanford. I think looking to add teams in the SE like Duke, NC, FSU, Virginia and Clemson makes more sense for the fan base. I think down the road ND, not joining the Big Ten or even the SEC will lead to their demise. The time will come when they won't be able to schedule big-time teams beyond game 2 or 3 into the season. Even if they finally add football to their ACC mebership games with NC State or Bosten College will never have the impact of USC or Michigan games.
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Post by dtowntitan on Aug 3, 2023 5:40:43 GMT -5
The genie may be out of the bottle with USC/UCLA coming to the Big Ten, but the league might be better served by not loading up with West Coast teams, maybe adding just Stanford. I think looking to add teams in the SE like Duke, NC, FSU, Virginia and Clemson makes more sense for the fan base. I think down the road ND, not joining the Big Ten or even the SEC will lead to their demise. The time will come when they won't be able to schedule big-time teams beyond game 2 or 3 into the season. Even if they finally add football to their ACC mebership games with NC State or Bosten College will never have the impact of USC or Michigan games. I have been reading that not only are the Big10 adding USC/UCLA which I believe is a done deal, they are also now looking at grabbing Washington/Oregon from the west, and then going down and grabbing at least FSU/Clemson from the South. If the Pac-12 really implodes the way it is looking like, it also appears that the Arizona schools and some of the others may be headed to the Big 12. We will really be on our way to 4 Major Conferences like has been discussed in the past here.
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Post by motorcitysam on Aug 3, 2023 14:56:26 GMT -5
Not sure what's the best way to describe it (unseemly? unsavory? tacky?) but Florida State's public threat to leave the ACC if they don't get paid more money from league television revenue than the other member schools just has a bad smell about it. It comes across as greedy and selfish. Also, maybe a little overconfident, since the exit fee from the ACC is $120 million and every ACC school has signed a "grant of rights" document that basically locks them into the ACC until 2036. The linked article below has more details. The short version: The Seminole leadership is doing a lot of whining. www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38122958/florida-state-consider-leaving-acc-due-revenue-distribution
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Post by fan on Aug 3, 2023 16:08:29 GMT -5
FSU wants out, and they think the best way out is to be the league crybaby, personally, I hope they don't get invited to the Big 10. FSU thinks they are Texas, they are not.
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