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Post by fan on Oct 26, 2022 10:32:22 GMT -5
The administration must believe that the UDM branding is a positive for the school in general and that the negative UDM branding for the sports program is a minor or of no concern. Somewhere along the line someone
must have decided that a winning or may be any athletic program is not a factor for the school to endure.
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Post by upbasketballfan on Oct 26, 2022 11:13:48 GMT -5
The administration must believe that the UDM branding is a positive for the school in general and that the negative UDM branding for the sports program is a minor or of no concern. Somewhere along the line someone must have decided that a winning or may be any athletic program is not a factor for the school to endure. Now I would think that would be a bad decision especially at a time when enrollments are declining and visibility is important. |
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Post by motorcitysam on Oct 26, 2022 11:25:59 GMT -5
The administration must believe that the UDM branding is a positive for the school in general and that the negative UDM branding for the sports program is a minor or of no concern. Somewhere along the line someone must have decided that a winning or may be any athletic program is not a factor for the school to endure. It would seem that is the case, just going by what we see on a day to day basis. If so, I would like to ask them how they came to that conclusion. I don't know what having "Mercy" in the name does for us academically. Does the administration believe that the name brings in a lot of incoming students who really, really wanted to go to a mercy school? Is it worth hiding the Jesuit part of our past and current configuration? And is it worth giving the impression that we are just a minor school located somewhere in the Detroit area, rather than the premier Catholic/private University in the state? I would like to hear how the administration would answer those questions. |
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Post by Commissioner on Oct 26, 2022 11:53:37 GMT -5
The administration must believe that the UDM branding is a positive for the school in general and that the negative UDM branding for the sports program is a minor or of no concern. Somewhere along the line someone must have decided that a winning or may be any athletic program is not a factor for the school to endure. It would seem that is the case, just going by what we see on a day to day basis. If so, I would like to ask them how they came to that conclusion. I don't know what having "Mercy" in the name does for us academically. Does the administration believe that the name brings in a lot of incoming students who really, really wanted to go to a mercy school? Is it worth hiding the Jesuit part of our past and current configuration? And is it worth giving the impression that we are just a minor school located somewhere in the Detroit area, rather than the premier Catholic/private University in the state? I would like to hear how the administration would answer those questions. As a non-alum with zero inside info, it strikes me that much of this is just an issue of pride--the Sisters, understandably, want their order to be front and center, and probably feel they earned it because it's not even clear that the university would have survived without the merger. From a branding standpoint, if you want to be a local institution built around the liberal arts with a strong program in nursing and health, Detroit Mercy seems like the way to go. If you want to be a national university, or at least a major regional university, you would want University of Detroit. I don't think this really even needs to be argued--pretty much everyone agrees that, marketing studies and principles aside, "Detroit Mercy" sounds like a small, local institution, and "The University of Detroit" sounds like a national/regional university. I think this is undoubtedly true for every demographic--alums, current students, potential students, parents, faculty, local business, the broader local community--everyone. I think the Detroit Mercy brand (and the confusion it has engendered) has probably been damaging not just to the athletic programs but generally to university enrollment and reputation, but I may be wrong there. |
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Post by nctitan on Oct 26, 2022 12:08:48 GMT -5
The administration must believe that the UDM branding is a positive for the school in general and that the negative UDM branding for the sports program is a minor or of no concern. Somewhere along the line someone must have decided that a winning or may be any athletic program is not a factor for the school to endure. It would seem that is the case, just going by what we see on a day to day basis. If so, I would like to ask them how they came to that conclusion. I don't know what having "Mercy" in the name does for us academically. Does the administration believe that the name brings in a lot of incoming students who really, really wanted to go to a mercy school? Is it worth hiding the Jesuit part of our past and current configuration? And is it worth giving the impression that we are just a minor school located somewhere in the Detroit area, rather than the premier Catholic/private University in the state? I would like to hear how the administration would answer those questions. Pardon me, Sam, but I am puzzled that you think the old name called out that we were the "premier Catholic/private University in the state." I would wager that very few people outside of Southeastern Michigan identified the University of Detroit as a Catholic institution, except possibly in the Jesuit community. Or that adding Mercy to our name obscured the Jesuit part of our institution, either in the past or the present. |
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Post by ptctitan on Oct 26, 2022 12:29:00 GMT -5
The administration must believe that the UDM branding is a positive for the school in general and that the negative UDM branding for the sports program is a minor or of no concern. Somewhere along the line someone must have decided that a winning or may be any athletic program is not a factor for the school to endure. UDM is not an approved brand. The only approved names to use are "University of Detroit Mercy" and "Detroit Mercy Titans." I think we should also allow DetMer and hire the Detmer brothers to offer the DetMerCast on ESPN+. That seems to be a winning format for ESPN and the NFL on Monday nights.  We do allow DetMer on some official game scoresheets and on LiveStats. |
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Post by fan on Oct 26, 2022 12:46:58 GMT -5
I think "pride" may be a factor, maybe minor, I think the bottom line is the Sisters wrote the check, they had no interest in branding, sports, or even a goal to be a premier Catholic university, and they picked the name that made them comfortable.
As the U of D being known as a "premier Catholic University", I grow up on the east coast, where "church" schools were very well known, and the U of D, while not as well known as Norte Dame, or St John's was as known as well
Dayton, or Duquesne, or St Louis or DePaul, maybe because the east was basketball territory, and Dave DeBusschere was such a popular Knick. If somebody got a letter or call from a Detroit coach it was a big deal,, remember the U of M and MSU had and still has a big following on the east coast, so Michigan schools are not unknown.
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Post by motorcitysam on Oct 26, 2022 12:49:31 GMT -5
It would seem that is the case, just going by what we see on a day to day basis. If so, I would like to ask them how they came to that conclusion. I don't know what having "Mercy" in the name does for us academically. Does the administration believe that the name brings in a lot of incoming students who really, really wanted to go to a mercy school? Is it worth hiding the Jesuit part of our past and current configuration? And is it worth giving the impression that we are just a minor school located somewhere in the Detroit area, rather than the premier Catholic/private University in the state? I would like to hear how the administration would answer those questions. Pardon me, Sam, but I am puzzled that you think the old name called out that we were the "premier Catholic/private University in the state." I would wager that very few people outside of Southeastern Michigan identified the University of Detroit as a Catholic institution, except possibly in the Jesuit community. Or that adding Mercy to our name obscured the Jesuit part of our institution, either in the past or the present. That's what you focused on, out of my whole post? Okay, well, let's address your puzzlement. If you looked at a list of Catholic schools in Michigan back in the 80s and saw Aquinas, Siena Heights, Madonna, Marygrove, Mercy, and the University of Detroit, which one would you think was the big one? In Missouri, would you think the big one was St. Louis University, Rockhurst, or Avila? In what way does the University openly, obviously promote their Jesuit component? The website name (which violates the style guide, incidentally) is UDMERCY.edu. The approved school name is Detroit Mercy. Mercy is on the jerseys and on just about every item in the gift shop and bookstore. You don't think that obscures the Jesuit part? The school SCREAMS that it is a Mercy institution, but keeps the Jesuit part quiet. That's obvious. I'm puzzled that you're puzzled by it. Well, actually I'm not puzzled. I kind of expected a response like that. |
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Post by motorcitysam on Oct 26, 2022 13:01:15 GMT -5
I think "pride" may be a factor, maybe minor, I think the bottom line is the Sisters wrote the check, they had no interest in branding, sports, or even a goal to be a premier Catholic university, and they picked the name that made them comfortable. As the U of D being known as a "premier Catholic University", I grow up on the east coast, where "church" schools were very well known, and the U of D, while not as well known as Norte Dame, or St John's was as known as well Dayton, or Duquesne, or St Louis or DePaul, maybe because the east was basketball territory, and Dave DeBusschere was such a popular Knick. If somebody got a letter or call from a Detroit coach it was a big deal,, remember the U of M and MSU had and still has a big following on the east coast, so Michigan schools are not unknown. I think you are right about the pride factor. It was, a still continues to be, a short sighted decision to brand the school that way. And while I know the Mercy faction likes to say they saved U-D, I wonder if Mercy would have survived on its own all these years if the merger never happened. Thanks for providing the East Coast perspective on the awareness people had of U-D on the coast. |
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Post by upbasketballfan on Oct 26, 2022 13:20:58 GMT -5
I agree with Sam and the fan on this issue. Growing up a Catholic in the UP where our big papers were the Chicago Tribune, Milwaukee Journal and Milwaukee Sentinel, and pouring over the sports sections we were well aware in the 50’s that Notre Dame, Detroit,Marquette, St. Louis, DePaul and Loyola were Catholic University’s. Today I think most of the kids up here think that Detroit Mercy is a hospital or nursing school.
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Post by fan on Oct 26, 2022 13:51:39 GMT -5
Looking back, when the Sister of Mercy came into the picture the simplest answer could have been "The Mercy College, School of Nursing" of or at the University of Detroit.
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Post by rbj on Oct 26, 2022 16:18:55 GMT -5
A few years ago a young lawyer was at my workplace visiting a client, he was so sharp, I wanted to know what law school he attended, he said I graduated from "Mercy". I replied where is "Mercy"...he replied... downtown Detroit.
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Post by Commissioner on Oct 26, 2022 19:12:30 GMT -5
I think "pride" may be a factor, maybe minor, I think the bottom line is the Sisters wrote the check, they had no interest in branding, sports, or even a goal to be a premier Catholic university, and they picked the name that made them comfortable. That's what I meant by "pride." They wrote the check, they were going to pick the name, and the name they wanted--and still want--is "Mercy." They're comfortable with that name--they're proud of it. |
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Post by motorcitysam on Oct 27, 2022 0:41:12 GMT -5
A few years ago a young lawyer was at my workplace visiting a client, he was so sharp, I wanted to know what law school he attended, he said I graduated from "Mercy". I replied where is "Mercy"...he replied... downtown Detroit. That's just sad. But I am sure that there are some in the school leadership who would be quite happy with that exchange. |
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Post by ptctitan on Oct 27, 2022 2:50:26 GMT -5
The solution to this branding issue in Athletics is to brand the University of Detroit Mercy as the Detroit Titans. The problem is the sole approved short name. The Perry Watson solution worked well for 25 years.
A good example of this branding solution is the company now called Meta Platforms. It used to be named Facebook. It owns various assets including the social media platforms Facebook and Instagram. Did it change the names of those assets to align with the branding of its new corporate name? No.
To answer the point made by Commissioner in his post, the Sisters wrote their check 32 years ago when their college was struggling after just 49 years of existence at Outer Drive and Southfield. By the 1970s, they resorted to renting out rooms in their newly constructed McAuley Center for wedding receptions, parties, and other social events. They had also built new dorms for nursing students but then had trouble filling them. In the '60s, they moved their high school off that campus out to its current location near Middlebelt and 11 Mile. Mt. Carmel Mercy Hospital went through multiple name and ownership changes until it is now part of Sinai-Grace. The newly merged Detroit Mercy entity then wasted scarce capital to retrofit the old Mercy campus to be the dental school only to turn around and sell that real estate to Wayne County Community College and build a new dental school facility.
The issue in 2022 is what brand can maximize the current university assets. Those assets include Division 1 athletics plus the fan and donor bases that surround that asset. The Sisters' check was written and spent last century. Yes, this is not the 1970s with Vitale, but also it is not 1990 any more.
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We do allow DetMer on some official game scoresheets and on LiveStats. 
