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Post by hyperion on Feb 16, 2022 12:28:17 GMT -5
It’s disappointing that so many of you have to look for excuses pertaining to this loss. Oakland is simply a better team and it showed. I think it’s time for a new coach. Someone young and hungry that can emulate what Kampe has done and to achieve success with low to mid-range talent. Emulate Kampe? He's been in the HL for eight years, no NCAA tournament, and five losing seasons. That's what you think is a good goal? We had a coach doing better than that and we fired him. If you want to move on from Davis that's one thing, but I would prefer to have higher goals than making the NIT once in an eight year period. Seriously, I think Kampe is a good coach, but it seems like some of you folks buy into the hype he and TP put out. Hey Sam, If we had a young coach that can maintain a .57 winning percentage, implement a sound defensive system, and maximize usage of talent (Those are all things that Kampe has done<Winning percentage is fo this year and the past 7 years>), this would be a significant upgrade and a welcomed change.
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Post by hyperion on Feb 16, 2022 12:34:29 GMT -5
It’s disappointing that so many of you have to look for excuses pertaining to this loss. Oakland is simply a better team and it showed. I think it’s time for a new coach. Someone young and hungry that can emulate what Kampe has done and to achieve success with low to mid-range talent. I can’t remember if you were one of the ones wanting a coaching change when we had Ray. It’s frustrating to me that some on here can not see the real problem. Getting rid of Ray for that younger guy, how’s that worked out for us? We couldn’t keep Keri but we replaced her with a bad decision maker. Every sport has suffered from his decisions and touch. When a Coaching change is necessary he procrastinates not because he wants to make the right decision but because he no longer trusts his decisions. We need to fix the real problem first! I think Mike Davis is a good man and a good coach. I think Waterman doesn’t go down in the first game with a concussion and this is a different season including the Akec injury. UP, I was very surprised that we chased our Ray Sr. From a basketball stand-point, that period was the most exciting for me, as a fan, in some time. It was the off-court issues that greatly disappointed me. When the overall sentiment became to go for something new, I was onboard but always suspected that it may become a mistake. It's been a rough period since he has left and I do feel that a change is necessary. How would you feel if after next year, AD leaves, coach retires, and MD Jr takes over?
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Post by fan on Feb 16, 2022 12:39:59 GMT -5
I think the Ray SR years were great.
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Post by uofdfan1983 on Feb 16, 2022 12:48:18 GMT -5
Everyone has their own expectations and definition of "great." For me, when it comes to U-D basketball: - the McCallum years were OK (with no more room for upward mobility after Ray JR left)
- the PW years were very good (and we maxed out after he got up in years)
- The Dickie V years were very very good (and they might have become great if he had stayed, or if Gaines had stayed)
- The Sweet 16 will be great
- Not sure where we will go under MD but it's too early to pull the plug.
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Post by upbasketballfan on Feb 16, 2022 12:52:39 GMT -5
I can’t remember if you were one of the ones wanting a coaching change when we had Ray. It’s frustrating to me that some on here can not see the real problem. Getting rid of Ray for that younger guy, how’s that worked out for us? We couldn’t keep Keri but we replaced her with a bad decision maker. Every sport has suffered from his decisions and touch. When a Coaching change is necessary he procrastinates not because he wants to make the right decision but because he no longer trusts his decisions. We need to fix the real problem first! I think Mike Davis is a good man and a good coach. I think Waterman doesn’t go down in the first game with a concussion and this is a different season including the Akec injury. UP, I was very surprised that we chased our Ray Sr. From a basketball stand-point, that period was the most exciting for me, as a fan, in some time. It was the off-court issues that greatly disappointed me. When the overall sentiment became to go for something new, I was onboard but always suspected that it may become a mistake. It's been a rough period since he has left and I do feel that a change is necessary. How would you feel if after next year, AD leaves, coach retires, and MD Jr takes over? I guess I’ll have to really think about that one. I really do not know much about MDJ except that he is Mikes Son. I would want to see more out of him in the next year as far as recruiting and PR. Maybe if Mike slides over and let’s him run things we would get a chance to see what we would be getting.
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Post by motorcitysam on Feb 16, 2022 13:00:15 GMT -5
Emulate Kampe? He's been in the HL for eight years, no NCAA tournament, and five losing seasons. That's what you think is a good goal? We had a coach doing better than that and we fired him. If you want to move on from Davis that's one thing, but I would prefer to have higher goals than making the NIT once in an eight year period. Seriously, I think Kampe is a good coach, but it seems like some of you folks buy into the hype he and TP put out. Hey Sam, If we had a young coach that can maintain a .57 winning percentage, implement a sound defensive system, and maximize usage of talent (Those are all things that Kampe has done<Winning percentage is fo this year and the past 7 years>), this would be a significant upgrade and a welcomed change. Yeah, it would be an improvement over the mess that the program has been since 2016-17, but we had a coach doing that AND making the postseason, and that was deemed not good enough. If your goal is to achieve less than what got our last successful coach fired, I don't think you are aiming high enough.
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Post by motorcitysam on Feb 16, 2022 13:27:30 GMT -5
Everyone has their own expectations and definition of "great." For me, when it comes to U-D basketball: - the McCallum years were OK (with no more room for upward mobility after Ray JR left)
- the PW years were very good (and we maxed out after he got up in years)
- The Dickie V years were very very good (and they might have become great if he had stayed, or if Gaines had stayed)
- The Sweet 16 will be great
- Not sure where we will go under MD but it's too early to pull the plug.
So, you looked into the future and decided that Coach Ray didn't have any upward mobility after his son left, despite the fact that he had already won 20 games at U-D before Young Ray arrived and despite his two MAC titles, two NCAA tournaments, and NIT trip at Ball State. Was that the same foresight that led you to tell everyone that BA was a great hire and was going to bring in top recruits and take the program to new heights? Because the opposite turned out to be true. Despite the school's one sided love affair with Dick Vitale, the best winning percentage in Titan history came under Smokey Gaines. People need to stop overlooking Gaines and obscuring his own success by lumping it into "the Vitale era". He was a head coach himself. We didn't give Coach Gaines the props he deserved when he was alive. Let's at least stop erasing his place in Titan history when we talk about the program.
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Post by bigchuck on Feb 16, 2022 13:33:23 GMT -5
I echo Sam's thoughts about Gaines. Gaines was a successful coach without Vitale but Vitale was never a successful coach without Gaines! I think Gaines was a large part of Vitale's success.
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Post by hyperion on Feb 16, 2022 13:47:12 GMT -5
Hey Sam, If we had a young coach that can maintain a .57 winning percentage, implement a sound defensive system, and maximize usage of talent (Those are all things that Kampe has done<Winning percentage is fo this year and the past 7 years>), this would be a significant upgrade and a welcomed change. Yeah, it would be an improvement over the mess that the program has been since 2016-17, but we had a coach doing that AND making the postseason, and that was deemed not good enough. If your goal is to achieve less than what got our last successful coach fired, I don't think you are aiming high enough. This last point you make is true Sam, the dream was always to be a darling mid-major. Can't do that without a great coach.
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Post by motorcitysam on Feb 16, 2022 14:32:41 GMT -5
Yeah, it would be an improvement over the mess that the program has been since 2016-17, but we had a coach doing that AND making the postseason, and that was deemed not good enough. If your goal is to achieve less than what got our last successful coach fired, I don't think you are aiming high enough. This last point you make is true Sam, the dream was always to be a darling mid-major. Can't do that without a great coach. Is Kampe a great coach? You said he's the one to emulate.
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Post by hyperion on Feb 16, 2022 15:28:45 GMT -5
This last point you make is true Sam, the dream was always to be a darling mid-major. Can't do that without a great coach. Is Kampe a great coach? You said he's the one to emulate. Due to my frustration with our program, I am envious of what Kampe has accomplished, after all, it is superior to us and there is also the head-to-head record misery. Is he a great coach? I would say NO. I was very happy with Ray Sr but as I stated earlier, I also supported the idea of what a younger BA could have become. I would be very supportive to trying this path again, with a young hungery coach that has strong ties to the City.
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Post by uofdfan1983 on Feb 16, 2022 16:14:42 GMT -5
The Dickie V years were very very good (and they might have become great if he had stayed, or if Gaines had stayed)
(or if Gaines had stayed) ....doesn't that indicate what I thought of him? He was a great recruiter. He almost got Moses to come here. Geracioti was the worst AD we could have hired at the time and Gaines couldn't get along with him. No wonder. I was VN Sports Editor at the time and Geracioti was living in his past glory as the head of the NIT back in his hometown of NYC. Unlike Dickie V., he couldn't live in his the moment, which was the reality he was now living in Detroit. It is true that sometimes guys reach their apex as a coach and it's time to go to pasture. Recruiting is a young man's game. It's part of the reason I was wrong on BA. He was a young guy who could recruit. But he wasn't a good Head Coach. McCallum is a very good recruiter but a better Top Assistant than a Head Coach. Gaines was a great Top Assistant and a great Head Coach too. Same with Charlie Coles. We should have hired him before he went to Miami of Ohio.
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Post by motorcitysam on Feb 16, 2022 16:58:06 GMT -5
The Dickie V years were very very good (and they might have become great if he had stayed, or if Gaines had stayed) (or if Gaines had stayed) ....doesn't that indicate what I thought of him? He was a great recruiter. He almost got Moses to come here. Geracioti was the worst AD we could have hired at the time and Gaines couldn't get along with him. No wonder. I was VN Sports Editor at the time and Geracioti was living in his past glory as the head of the NIT back in his hometown of NYC. Unlike Dickie V., he couldn't live in his the moment, which was the reality he was now living in Detroit. It is true that sometimes guys reach their apex as a coach and it's time to go to pasture. Recruiting is a young man's game. It's part of the reason I was wrong on BA. He was a young guy who could recruit. But he wasn't a good Head Coach. McCallum is a very good recruiter but a better Top Assistant than a Head Coach. Gaines was a great Top Assistant and a great Head Coach too. Same with Charlie Coles. We should have hired him before he went to Miami of Ohio. No, it indicates that you reduced Smokey's tenure to a footnote in Vitale's career, even though his winning percentage eclipsed DV's. That has been going on for decades regarding Gaines among Titan fans and the administration. It's well past time for that to end. You told anyone who would listen that BA was a surefire success and the next big thing, even after evidence to the contrary was clear. Nothing personal, but I'm not willing to trust your evaluation on coaches, past, present, or future. The fact that you and a couple of others here take unwarranted shots at McCallum is one of the consistently puzzling things about this board.
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Post by udballer on Feb 16, 2022 17:45:04 GMT -5
UP, I was very surprised that we chased our Ray Sr. From a basketball stand-point, that period was the most exciting for me, as a fan, in some time. It was the off-court issues that greatly disappointed me. When the overall sentiment became to go for something new, I was onboard but always suspected that it may become a mistake. It's been a rough period since he has left and I do feel that a change is necessary. How would you feel if after next year, AD leaves, coach retires, and MD Jr takes over? I guess I’ll have to really think about that one. I really do not know much about MDJ except that he is Mikes Son. I would want to see more out of him in the next year as far as recruiting and PR. Maybe if Mike slides over and let’s him run things we would get a chance to see what we would be getting. Count me out on that insanity. It's one thing to allow a proven head coach to carry on despite a .383 winning percentage. It's completely another to hire an assistant coach who boasts the same .383. MD gets enough leeway from this fanbase despite falling flat (so far) based on his initial comments. We'd have to do a complete 180 in the near future to even consider hiring Jr.
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Post by hyperion on Feb 17, 2022 14:30:56 GMT -5
I guess I’ll have to really think about that one. I really do not know much about MDJ except that he is Mikes Son. I would want to see more out of him in the next year as far as recruiting and PR. Maybe if Mike slides over and let’s him run things we would get a chance to see what we would be getting. Count me out on that insanity. It's one thing to allow a proven head coach to carry on despite a .383 winning percentage. It's completely another to hire an assistant coach who boasts the same .383. MD gets enough leeway from this fanbase despite falling flat (so far) based on his initial comments. We'd have to do a complete 180 in the near future to even consider hiring Jr. I should have been more clear when I brought this up. I highly recommend that we put nepotism behind us when we select the next coach.
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