|
Post by royaloakdave on Apr 15, 2022 14:34:09 GMT -5
Looks like Kyle LeGreair is the odds-on favorite to start at PG however, I won't be surprised if Sonny Johnson, Jr. gives Kyle a run for his money.
|
|
|
Post by Rogobob77 on Apr 15, 2022 14:44:41 GMT -5
Looks like Kyle LeGreair is the odds-on favorite to start at PG however, I won't be surprised if Sonny Johnson, Jr. gives Kyle a run for his money. FWIW, LeGreair is 6-0, 180 lbs., and has two years experience in the Titans system. Last vitals I saw on Johnson was 5-10, 150 lbs. Johnson was pretty much out his entire senior year due to injury.
|
|
|
Post by Commissioner on Apr 15, 2022 15:26:25 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree with you, commissioner, on your loyalty analysis. This is nothing like marriage. AD was a teenager who agreed to play basketball and decided he wanted to play for his dad last minute when his DAD DECIDED to take a new job a thousand miles away. Did his dad talk to AD and did they decide to take on the move together? Possibly, but we don’t know. Even if they did, again, Antoine was a damn kid. Also, AD received his degree, represented the school extraordinary well as far as being a model student athlete. He’s been the guy practicing and shooting 10,000 shots a day, diving over scorer’s tables and coming out with a sling on his shoulder. Not you, not me, not any of us. Maybe the question is, when does one’s loyalty become no longer required or expected? I agree that marriage is for life. But using that as an analogy for a kid playing basketball seems rather silly. Have you ever in your life changed jobs? Did you earn a graduate degree from a school that was not your undergraduate school? If so, I guess you’re not loyal. I could see if AD transferred without graduating or departed by putting down the school in some way. But people grow and move on to other chapters in their lives - 23 year old basketball players included. What is the "this" that isn't like a marriage? If you mean his decision to play for UD, or now his decision to transfer, I won't argue, because that's not the analogy I was making. I was talking about the parting. This really isn't beating up on AD, because it seems to me that most of the players do it nowadays--the saccharine, weepy announcement about how he loves the coaches who were so wonderful and the fans and his teammates, and he'll always be so grateful and "I'll always be a [Titan/Raider/Walrus/Wren]. But..." I presume some older adults actually advise the young men to do this. But me? I'm not interested. If this is about "love" and "commitment" and loyalty, well, as the great Patty Loveless used to sing, "you can feel bad if it makes you feel better," but it doesn't change the fact that you're walking out. And I'm also with Patty on this--don't worry, I won't be walking around in your old sweater (jersey), crying tears. On the other hand, if this is just business, well, say so and get on with it. Same on my end. No "we were so lucky to have you, you were the best, we wish only good things for you; to us, you'll always be a Walrus!" Like, I suspect, most people on this board, I've had a lot of business "friends" over the years. These were people I knew and liked; we might have played golf together or attended a sporting event together; I enjoyed their company and I hope that they enjoyed mine. A few even became truly personal friends. But for most, it was business. When the business ended, we stopped seeing one another. Every now and then I might think, "I wonder whatever became of old ... ." Sometimes, I bored nights, I might even look someone up on the Net. But it was business. So is this a matter of the heart? If so, spare me the pity. Or is this a matter of business? If so, there's no need for any pity and long, syrupy good-byes. Like I say, I'm not mad at AD, or disappointed with him as a person (I'm mildly disappointed, but largely ambivalent about his decision, but not with him as a person). It's perfectly understandable. Fan put it pretty well up above: "next year would have been just like the past 4, and all he would do is add to his records, so what? next year there will be no NCAA, no NIT, no HL championship, no memories, just more of the same." That's right. But if we do spend time complaining about the lack of "commitment" and "loyalty" in today's game--and I think it is fair to do so, because (and not to contradict all I've just said), there are arational, emotional elements to the fandom that makes it all possible--then I also think you shouldn't be rushing out to root for him the future. So, I don't wish him ill-will. I just don't care. He's gone. And no, I see no reason to "root for" him in the future, just I didn't "root for" Jason Calliste at Oregon, or Chris Brandon at Northern Kentucky. They stopped being Titans. I didn't root against them. I didn't hope they'd get hurt, or flame out, or have a bad experience. I just didn't care any more than I cared about how Trevon Faulkner performed. I guess I cared in the way that if I see the name of the guy who handled my first mortgage application in 1991 I note that more the name of some other banker getting a promotion or being elected a fellow in the Society of American Bankers Foundation or whatever, but that's all. To me, Willy Isiani will remain a "Titan." I'll root for Willy in his pro career. He's leaving a year of eligibility on the table, too, but he's going pro, not going to play for someone else in the college game. Same when Ray McCallum left. They remained Titans. Jason Calliste did not. When he transferred out, he left almost literally in the middle of the night, with no warning, and that bothered some people. I recall I was stunned a bit at the time, due to the lateness of the season. But I always kind of appreciated that Jason just left, without a lot of comment and blather and drama, just a matter of fact statement, it's time for me to go. But after that, he was no longer a Titan. Good luck, Antoine.
|
|
|
Post by Commissioner on Apr 15, 2022 15:28:40 GMT -5
Looks like Kyle LeGreair is the odds-on favorite to start at PG however, I won't be surprised if Sonny Johnson, Jr. gives Kyle a run for his money. FWIW, LeGreair is 6-0, 180 lbs., and has two years experience in the Titans system. Last vitals I saw on Johnson was 5-10, 150 lbs. Johnson was pretty much out his entire senior year due to injury. Agreed. I hope we don't expect too much, as fans, from Sonny. I'm glad we signed him and I think, assuming he gets here in the fall, that he'll be a productive player for us, maybe even a star. But he's no longer the player Michigan State and Ohio State once offered, and whether he can recover that we don't know. Keep expectations real.
|
|
|
Post by titans03 on Apr 15, 2022 15:53:01 GMT -5
FWIW, LeGreair is 6-0, 180 lbs., and has two years experience in the Titans system. Last vitals I saw on Johnson was 5-10, 150 lbs. Johnson was pretty much out his entire senior year due to injury. Agreed. I hope we don't expect too much, as fans, from Sonny. I'm glad we signed him and I think, assuming he gets here in the fall, that he'll be a productive player for us, maybe even a star. But he's no longer the player Michigan State and Ohio State once offered, and whether he can recover that we don't know. Keep expectations real. Why is he no longer that player? Just because of injury? Is there reason to expect he won’t make a full recovery?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2022 16:08:50 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Commissioner on Apr 15, 2022 16:11:15 GMT -5
Agreed. I hope we don't expect too much, as fans, from Sonny. I'm glad we signed him and I think, assuming he gets here in the fall, that he'll be a productive player for us, maybe even a star. But he's no longer the player Michigan State and Ohio State once offered, and whether he can recover that we don't know. Keep expectations real. Why is he no longer that player? Just because of injury? Is there reason to expect he won’t make a full recovery? Good question. Perhaps I should have said he's no longer the same prospect. Sonny was top 5 ranked in Ohio as a soph. He was averaging 15 points and 6 assists when he tore his ACL, and missed about half the season. Some players come all the way back from that, and some don't. He had verbally committed to Penn State, but they had a coaching change and there was what appeared to be a mutual parting, shaped at least in part by concern about his knee. He played about half a season again (the second half) as a junior, and averaged 11 points and 4 assists. No more high major offers were forthcoming to replace Penn State. Before the injury, he was ranked #5 prospect in Ohio. After--at the start of last season, #20. Now, Ohio's become a very good recruiting ground. The #20 recruit in Ohio is probably a good mid-major player. But the #5 recruit in Ohio is probably a high major star. Then he missed several games this year, I believe with a concussion but I may be wrong. He was still a star player for a good Garfield Heights team. (GHHS is a traditional power in Cleveland). As stated, I'm glad we signed him and I think he'll be good, but we shouldn't get carried away with expectations.
|
|
|
Post by Rogobob77 on Apr 15, 2022 16:23:58 GMT -5
Agreed. I hope we don't expect too much, as fans, from Sonny. I'm glad we signed him and I think, assuming he gets here in the fall, that he'll be a productive player for us, maybe even a star. But he's no longer the player Michigan State and Ohio State once offered, and whether he can recover that we don't know. Keep expectations real. Why is he no longer that player? Just because of injury? Is there reason to expect he won’t make a full recovery? I think he will eventually be a fine player for the Titans, but it’s a big step up from high school to significant minutes in a D-1 lineup when you haven’t played competitively for a year and you weigh 150 pounds. Generally speaking, freshman are more likely to fall short of rather than meet/exceed expectations. You only need to look at the Pat Baldwin Jr. situation at UWM this past season for a recent example.
|
|
|
Post by motorcitysam on Apr 15, 2022 16:30:18 GMT -5
AD did the three things I want to see out of Titan players: He played hard, he respected the basketball program, and he respected the University. If a player does those three things, I'm not likely to hold any bad feelings towards them. AD seems like a good young man; I will root for him to do well, especially if he ends up at a school I already root for. I don't root for Arizona State, but if Antoine ends up there I will attend some Sun Devil home games and cheer for him while wearing some University of Detroit gear. I understand and respect his decision. He was here for four years. There were people trying to get him to leave for a better/bigger program since before he signed his letter.
Regarding other players who left the program prematurely, I was fine with Ray Mac leaving to go pro, although I wish he would have stayed for that senior year. I thought Jason telling coaches and teammates that he was going to be back only to leave for Oregon at the last minute (I think it was literally August) was deceitful, so I never rooted for him once he became a Duck. Didn't care one way or the other about JJJ and Jack B chasing the league after their freshman season, and I didn't root for or against them once they left.
I'm glad we got to see AD as a Titan. I imagine that the next guard we have who leads the conference in scoring as a freshman won't be around after that first year.
|
|
|
Post by motorcitysam on Apr 15, 2022 16:33:45 GMT -5
Why is he no longer that player? Just because of injury? Is there reason to expect he won’t make a full recovery? I think he will eventually be a fine player for the Titans, but it’s a big step up from high school to significant minutes in a D-1 lineup when you haven’t played competitively for a year and you weigh 150 pounds. Generally speaking, freshman are more likely to fall short of rather than meet/exceed expectations. You only need to look at the Pat Baldwin Jr. situation at UWM this past season for a recent example. Based on video and reports, Sonny strikes me more as a facilitator and pure point guard, rather than a "shoot first, shoot second, maybe pass if I am doubled" point guard like the ones so common in the game today. I think on a team with some scorers he will eventually be the straw that stirs that drink.
|
|
|
Post by uofdfan1983 on Apr 15, 2022 19:02:51 GMT -5
Here's the part I hate. The part that some of you will consider truly old-fashion:
I always played sports to win. True, I was never close to being a star, but I truly enjoyed being on the team and playing for my coaches and teammates. First and only - it was the competition and the camaraderie that mattered to me. And I never got to a level where I could play for fans (we still have a few left at U-D).
My point is this: WINNING is all that matters. For me: the greatest Titans ever were winners as Titans. That means Dave, Thunder & Lightning, Sweet Due, Twirl, JJ, Rashad, Willie and Ray Jr. Next were the ones who made a difference by helping us get to the point where we knocking on the door, or were key positive ingredients on winning teams (Greg Grant, Tolbert, Bacari, Dwayne Kelley, Michael Lovelace, Eli, McCormick, Boyd, Brian Alexander, Des Ferguson). I'm happy Spencer was a Titan. Tullos is a good guy. But neither is in my Top 10 Titans. They just did not advance the Program and WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS like the other names I mention.
To me, the penultimate is to build something and finish it. Whether it's a business, a house, a family. Put in all the sweat and labor and reach the top of the mountain. I am shocked that everyone assumes next year is going to be another bad year for the Titans. The Horizon sucks and just got suckier with all the Transfers in the Portal. Until AD left, we had all the cards going into next season. We just need a couple tough big guys. That's it. A couple tough big guys and a WE-first culture focused on Defense. And we win the damn Horizon Tourney finally. And we cut the nets down. And AD would have celebrated that moment with his family and it would have meant EVERYTHING to him. More than the NIL money he doesn't need. More than playing one year as a role player for a team that may (or may not) need him and being part of the NCAA tourney that way. It would have been a moment he and his family would have for the rest of their lives.
I admit I'm a sucker. I love "Miracle on Ice" and "Hoosiers." If I had a choice of fighting like hell and losing/building/climbing for 4 (or 5) years and then being St Peters in my last season, I would take that over any other potential college path available to me, if I had the talent. I would rather be part of something that is game-changing, a difference-maker helping build a legacy -- rather than someone who just goes to a school that is already winning. The picture of Ray SR and Ray JR after beating Valpo is what it's all about. Taking NIL money and flying first class and all the excesses of the Power 5 would mean nothing to me. Being a good teammate (which AD was) and finishing the job together would be my goal, and I would stay with it until they had to kick me out of Calihan with no eligibility left.
|
|
|
Post by calihanmole on Apr 15, 2022 19:22:54 GMT -5
LOL. You’re saying someone who probably has close to $0 net worth but has busted his ass practicing countless hours to represent this school “doesn’t need” any money. Maybe it’s generational but I don’t think you guys realize how out of touch you sound with contemporary America.
|
|
|
Post by uofdfan1983 on Apr 15, 2022 19:26:04 GMT -5
Ya, Antoine really had a long way to go to get spending money from Dear Ole Dad, who is making over half a million a year. Save the "money first" stories for those who really are in poverty, please.
|
|
|
Post by Rogobob77 on Apr 15, 2022 19:26:46 GMT -5
Here's the part I hate. The part that some of you will consider truly old-fashion: I always played sports to win. True, I was never close to being a star, but I truly enjoyed being on the team and playing for my coaches and teammates. First and only - it was the competition and the camaraderie that mattered to me. And I never got to a level where I could play for fans (we still have a few left at U-D). My point is this: WINNING is all that matters. For me: the greatest Titans ever were winners as Titans. That means Dave, Thunder & Lightning, Sweet Due, Twirl, JJ, Rashad, Willie and Ray Jr. Next were the ones who made a difference by helping us get to the point where we knocking on the door, or were key positive ingredients on winning teams (Greg Grant, Tolbert, Bacari, Dwayne Kelley, Michael Lovelace, Eli, McCormick, Boyd, Brian Alexander, Des Ferguson). I'm happy Spencer was a Titan. Tullos is a good guy. But neither is in my Top 10 Titans. They just did not advance the Program and WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS like the other names I mention. To me, the penultimate is to build something and finish it. Whether it's a business, a house, a family. Put in all the sweat and labor and reach the top of the mountain. I am shocked that everyone assumes next year is going to be another bad year for the Titans. The Horizon sucks and just got suckier with all the Transfers in the Portal. Until AD left, we had all the cards going into next season. We just need a couple tough big guys. That's it. A couple tough big guys and a WE-first culture focused on Defense. And we win the damn Horizon Tourney finally. And we cut the nets down. And AD would have celebrated that moment with his family and it would have meant EVERYTHING to him. More than the NIL money he doesn't need. More than playing one year as a role player for a team that may (or may not) need him and being part of the NCAA tourney that way. It would have been a moment he and his family would have for the rest of their lives. I admit I'm a sucker. I love "Miracle on Ice" and "Hoosiers." If I had a choice of fighting like hell and losing/building/climbing for 4 (or 5) years and then being St Peters in my last season, I would take that over any other potential college path available to me, if I had the talent. I would rather be part of something that is game-changing, a difference-maker helping build a legacy -- rather than someone who just goes to a school that is already winning. The picture of Ray SR and Ray JR after beating Valpo is what it's all about. Taking NIL money and flying first class and all the excesses of the Power 5 would mean nothing to me. Being a good teammate (which AD was) and finishing the job together would be my goal, and I would stay with it until they had to kick me out of Calihan with no eligibility left. Even with Antoine leaving, I agree with you that there is potential for the Titans to be competitive in what looks to be a weakened Horizon next season. Atec, Harvey, Waterman and McAdoo form an experienced core to work with and perhaps Phillips will return healthy and finally live up to his advanced billing. LeGreair is a nice complimentary player on an improving trajectory. If we hold on to that group of players and get a couple nice recruits to supplement, I will be guardedly optimistic for 2022-23 (hope springs eternal). If we lose additional players to the transfer portal and/or come up basically empty on the recruiting trail, I will start to become more depressed and disillusioned on the state of the program.
|
|
|
Post by calihanmole on Apr 15, 2022 19:32:23 GMT -5
You must not know much about personal finance. Plenty of reasons to make your own money as a 23 year old and not have to ask your dad for cash. Maxing out retirement accounts and taking advantage of compound interest being one reason. Just because MD makes a lot of money doesn’t guarantee AD is getting cash, and there are limits to what one person can gift another per tax laws.
|
|