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Post by Rogobob77 on Jan 21, 2021 14:26:15 GMT -5
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Post by Rogobob77 on Jan 21, 2021 15:07:13 GMT -5
Season canceled:
DETROIT (1/21/21) -- University of Detroit Mercy Director of Athletics Robert C. Vowels, Jr. has issued the following statement in regard to the women's basketball season.
"The health and well-being of our student-athletes is our athletic department's top priority. We have talked with all players and members of our women's basketball program about their concerns. We take them very seriously and will continue to review them closely. "
"As we have prioritized the needs of our student-athletes during this challenging academic year, we have decided to suspend the 2020-21 women's basketball season."
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Post by calihanmole on Jan 21, 2021 16:02:18 GMT -5
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Post by ptctitan on Jan 21, 2021 16:24:47 GMT -5
Same thing happening at Purdue Ft. Wayne. link
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Post by Rogobob77 on Jan 21, 2021 16:50:03 GMT -5
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Post by calihanmole on Jan 21, 2021 17:27:50 GMT -5
Why the hell did Vowels hire someone with 4 major NCAA violations at her previous school?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2021 19:03:46 GMT -5
Being a fan of Titan basketball is not very enjoyable anymore. First BA, then APR issues/a postseason ban, a consistantly underperforming men's basketball team under Davis, and now this. As an alum, I'm embarrassed and fed up. The global pandemic has made day to day life a miserable hell and one of the few things that is supposed to bring joy and a much needed distraction ends up being a huge fail. Maybe it's time to just throw in the towel
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Post by bigchuck on Jan 21, 2021 19:51:25 GMT -5
Why the hell did Vowels hire someone with 4 major NCAA violations at her previous school? My thoughts exactly when I first heard about the hire. I was ready to end support of the Women's program. After cooling down, I decided that people could change and it was years ago. If Vowels knew about the problems and discussed it during the interview and was satisficed, I would continue supporting the program. During that period I read the NCAA (or EMU's report to the NCAA) about the charges against our new coach. It was a damning report. You don't get a 2 year banishment for minor stuff. Unfortunately, the articles in the News and Free Press sound like a Cliff's notes version of the EMU report. Knowing this, how could our internal oversight fail so badly? How could this come as a surprise out of the blue? Why was the season cancelled and the Women who have worked so hard and gone through so much robbed of completing the season? Our last men's coach was suspended for 8 games and the players never missed a game. Why are the women treated differently. Why when the Women's Lacrosse coach ran afoul of the administration a coach was named to complete the season. Why when a few soccer players complain a 25 year coach is forced out, but now with every player and every parent complaining the answer is to cancel the season? Why is Women's basketball different? There are a lot of questions begging for answers. I am so embarrassed for the University. I am also personally embarrassed to some of parents. I had reassured them last year that the the school would not abandon their daughters because of a coaching change. This was to allay their concerns as it became obvious that a coaching change was a high probability. It is a very tough day to be a University of Detroit Mercy athletic booster. I just got off the phone with another big Women's Sport booster who is just as upset as my wife and I.
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Post by ptctitan on Jan 21, 2021 20:23:23 GMT -5
Why the hell did Vowels hire someone with 4 major NCAA violations at her previous school? My thoughts exactly when I first heard about the hire. I was ready to end support of the Women's program. After cooling down, I decided that people could change and it was years ago. If Vowels knew about the problems and discussed it during the interview and was satisficed, I would continue supporting the program. During that period I read the NCAA (or EMU's report to the NCAA) about the charges against our new coach. It was a damning report. You don't get a 2 year banishment for minor stuff. Unfortunately, the articles in the News and Free Press sound like a Cliff's notes version of the EMU report. Knowing this, how could our internal oversight fail so badly? How could this come as a surprise out of the blue? Why was the season cancelled and the Women who have worked so hard and gone through so much robbed of completing the season? Our last men's coach was suspended for 8 games and the players never missed a game. Why are the women treated differently. Why when the Women's Lacrosse coach ran afoul of the administration a coach was named to complete the season. Why when a few soccer players complain a 25 year coach is forced out, but now with every player and every parent complaining the answer is to cancel the season? Why is Women's basketball different? There are a lot of questions begging for answers. I am so embarrassed for the University. I am also personally embarrassed to some of parents. I had reassured them last year that the the school would not abandon their daughters because of a coaching change. This was to allay their concerns as it became obvious that a coaching change was a high probability. It is a very tough day to be a University of Detroit Mercy athletic booster. I just got off the phone with another big Women's Sport booster who is just as upset as my wife and I. In addition to the hiring decision for which Vowels is responsible, where was Teri Kromrei on this? Isn't she supposed to be the direct supervisor of the women's BB program? The practice length issues were the very same issues that got Autumn Rademacher in trouble here. There's a pattern of inattention to detail throughout this department. From unrepaired ceiling tiles in Calihan Hall to this. If you hire someone and give them a second chance, you still need to monitor them on practice times when that was one of the major reasons for her show cause. I understand why they canceled the season though. The letter says the players only trust Tim Webb and the grad assistant. You can't let Webb coach before the letter is investigated when his wife is one of the signers of the letter. And you can't let the grad assistant coach alone. It's an untenable situation. Chuck, your anger is justified.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Jan 21, 2021 20:44:07 GMT -5
I looked at Facebook for Detroit News and Detroit Free Press reader comments on this story. Here are some of the responses:
“Where were those in the sports administration while this was going on??”
“You can be a coach WITHOUT being an abusive bully. Kudos to the parents for standing up and calling this tyrant out on her behavior.”
“Can't they get a substitute coach so the students don't lose their chance to play?”
“asking for a friend.. why wasnt the coach terminated?”
“NEWS FLASH: Channel 7 reporting tonight that the season was cancelled due to Covid Issues? WHICH IS IT? A cover up? WXYZ did not disclose any mention of parental issues or threats from the coach.”
“From a parent of a former player from Eastern where she coached before. She did this exact same thing to that team. She needs a lifetime ban from ever coaching another team period.”
“I have VERY negative opinions of Detroit Mercy’s ability to respond appropriately to complaints from students against faculty from my own experience there. They send me junk all the time asking for donations. They’ll never get any from me.”
“Why cancel the season? Get rid of the coach and let em play. Sounds like the assistant coaches would be happy to see her go anyway. Let the assistants take over.”
“Another person who let a position go to her head where she felt she could get away with belittling and emotional abuse and much more. Time to let her go.”
“So, she put EMU on probation for multiple infractions, and U of D still hired her?”
“It sounds like Mercy has a seriously flawed hiring process.”
“it called are vowels he the guy in charge of all the sports programs”
“It sounds like it goes beyond doing her job. You don’t have to humiliate players and other coaching staff to get them to perform. If you do, you SUCK as a leader.”
“Interesting that she was hired there after what happened at EMU!!!”
A branding related footnote: in comments where the University was referred to by name, one reader called the institution “U of D,” one “Mercy,” and one “Detroit Mercy.”
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Post by motorcitysam on Jan 22, 2021 8:34:39 GMT -5
Being a fan of Titan basketball is not very enjoyable anymore. First BA, then APR issues/a postseason ban, a consistantly underperforming men's basketball team under Davis, and now this. As an alum, I'm embarrassed and fed up. The global pandemic has made day to day life a miserable hell and one of the few things that is supposed to bring joy and a much needed distraction ends up being a huge fail. Maybe it's time to just throw in the towel Man, I feel you. What a mess. I hadn't really been following the Lady Titans beyond tracking their record, and I never had a clue that there were issues like this. Between this, the AD/Assistant coach affair, Bacari's SMD comment, the APR ban, and the erroneous reports that the Titans cancelled a couple of games for "mental health reasons", we're making the news for all the wrong reasons.
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Post by motorcitysam on Jan 22, 2021 8:38:31 GMT -5
I looked at Facebook for Detroit News and Detroit Free Press reader comments on this story. Here are some of the responses: “Where were those in the sports administration while this was going on??” “You can be a coach WITHOUT being an abusive bully. Kudos to the parents for standing up and calling this tyrant out on her behavior.” “Can't they get a substitute coach so the students don't lose their chance to play?” “asking for a friend.. why wasnt the coach terminated?” “NEWS FLASH: Channel 7 reporting tonight that the season was cancelled due to Covid Issues? WHICH IS IT? A cover up? WXYZ did not disclose any mention of parental issues or threats from the coach.” “From a parent of a former player from Eastern where she coached before. She did this exact same thing to that team. She needs a lifetime ban from ever coaching another team period.” “I have VERY negative opinions of Detroit Mercy’s ability to respond appropriately to complaints from students against faculty from my own experience there. They send me junk all the time asking for donations. They’ll never get any from me.” “Why cancel the season? Get rid of the coach and let em play. Sounds like the assistant coaches would be happy to see her go anyway. Let the assistants take over.” “Another person who let a position go to her head where she felt she could get away with belittling and emotional abuse and much more. Time to let her go.” “So, she put EMU on probation for multiple infractions, and U of D still hired her?” “It sounds like Mercy has a seriously flawed hiring process.” “it called are vowels he the guy in charge of all the sports programs” “It sounds like it goes beyond doing her job. You don’t have to humiliate players and other coaching staff to get them to perform. If you do, you SUCK as a leader.” “Interesting that she was hired there after what happened at EMU!!!” A branding related footnote: in comments where the University was referred to by name, one reader called the institution “U of D,” one “Mercy,” and one “Detroit Mercy.” I'm going to just start telling people that Detroit Mercy is an entirely different school from the University of Detroit. Especially for stories like this one.
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Post by ptctitan on Jan 22, 2021 13:02:28 GMT -5
I'm unhappy with the PR resulting from the parents' decision to take their grievances public. So, I downloaded their letter from the Free Press and read the list of grievances. Here's most of the list:
1. Gilbert turned conditioning demands into requirements for playing time. Players had to run a 7 minute mile in order to play.
2. Gilbert tried to get some players to change their schedules or majors to avoid interference with practices and were criticized for not agreeing to do so.
3. Gilbert demands participation in athletically-related activities that they claim diverts them from study time; e.g., extra workouts with coaches or trainers that when players decline them, they are criticized for not caring about the program.
4. "Several instances" where practice began 15-20 minutes early or ended 10-15 minutes late. Sometimes caused by Gilbert talking an extra 10-20 minutes after practice ends.
5. Players who did not play a lot of game minutes were assigned extra conditioning workouts on off-days or during the week that take place after the 4 hour daily limit was reached.
6. Holding film sessions after road games at UIC and GB.
7. Players claim Gilbert is not organized or efficient in practice. She ignores time warnings from her assistants.
8. Belittling injuries and making them feel they can't report their "concerns" about injuries and ailments to their trainer who happens to Associate Athletic Director Mike Miller.
9. A claim that some players were instructed to disregard or not report COVID symptoms on game days.
10. Humiliating and harassing assistant coaches , most especially Tim Webb, in front of players.
11. When players asked to see a doctor, they were harassed by being asked by the Coach or by other trainers, "Why do you need to see a doctor?"
12. A player being criticized for sharing a concern about access to equipment directly with Vowels rather than going to Coach Gilbert.
13. A toxic environment where the players fear making any mistake, have mental health concerns, and have openly contemplated suicide or injuring themselves so they don't have to face Gilbert's belittling and emotional abuse.
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Post by upbasketballfan on Jan 22, 2021 17:40:05 GMT -5
I'm unhappy with the PR resulting from the parents' decision to take their grievances public. So, I downloaded their letter from the Free Press and read the list of grievances. Here's most of the list: 1. Gilbert turned conditioning demands into requirements for playing time. Players had to run a 7 minute mile in order to play. 2. Gilbert tried to get some players to change their schedules or majors to avoid interference with practices and were criticized for not agreeing to do so. 3. Gilbert demands participation in athletically-related activities that they claim diverts them from study time; e.g., extra workouts with coaches or trainers that when players decline them, they are criticized for not caring about the program. 4. "Several instances" where practice began 15-20 minutes early or ended 10-15 minutes late. Sometimes caused by Gilbert talking an extra 10-20 minutes after practice ends. 5. Players who did not play a lot of game minutes were assigned extra conditioning workouts on off-days or during the week that take place after the 4 hour daily limit was reached. 6. Holding film sessions after road games at UIC and GB. 7. Players claim Gilbert is not organized or efficient in practice. She ignores time warnings from her assistants. 8. Belittling injuries and making them feel they can't report their "concerns" about injuries and ailments to their trainer who happens to Associate Athletic Director Mike Miller. 9. A claim that some players were instructed to disregard or not report COVID symptoms on game days. 10. Humiliating and harassing assistant coaches , most especially Tim Webb, in front of players. 11. When players asked to see a doctor, they were harassed by being asked by the Coach or by other trainers, "Why do you need to see a doctor?" 12. A player being criticized for sharing a concern about access to equipment directly with Vowels rather than going to Coach Gilbert. 13. A toxic environment where the players fear making any mistake, have mental health concerns, and have openly contemplated suicide or injuring themselves so they don't have to face Gilbert's belittling and emotional abuse. I am not a big fan of anyone getting getting harassed or belittled by anyone and I think coaching a college team is not a place for a bully. I have been following the Womens Team closely and thought they were playing better than last year. I felt sorry for Gilbert getting such a late start due to her late hire which seems to be a Vowels pattern. If you read some of the grievances there seems to me to be a little bit of a plot here maybe and maybe not a product of Tim Webb. I noticed his daughter did not play in either of the Oakland games. 1) If a player can not run a 7 min. mile they probably shouldn't be playing D1 basketball. There are a couple of players on this team who do have nice skills but are a definite liability running up and down the court and in many instances we were stuck with a 4>5 disadvantage. Both of these players were starters for Scott last year and we watched a lot of games wondering what they were doing on the floor. 2)Trying to get a player to change their schedule to help the team is not a profound request. 3) A Coach expecting their players to participate in team related activities putting forward additional effort is not an unusual request. 4) Trying to finish or finalize something you are working on is not unusual. 5) ? Being ready when your up is part of being a part of a team. 6) Holding a film session when it is still fresh in every ones mind is a good thing. 7) This looks like a problem of the tail trying to wag the dog. 8) I guess we would have to ask Mike Miller on this one. Belittling anyone or what they think they feel is not acceptable. We could have some extreme sensitivity here also. 9) Not reporting Covid symptoms is unacceptable. 10) Tim Webb as I referred to earlier is a big boy and should act accordingly. If he had a problem he should have talked to Gilbert and if that didn't work then Miller. 11) If I had a player requesting to see a Dr. during practice I would ask why also. I think it is the job of a coach to know what is going on with his or her players. 12) I would want my players to come to me first before going over my head and Vowels should refer them back to their coach. This is kind of contradictory to a few of their issues above like 3 & 5. 13) Suicide should not be taken lightly but anyone contemplating faking an injury or suicide because of any of the above probably shouldn't be under the pressure of playing a D1 sport. Like I said earlier Abuse does not have a place here and maybe I am reading into this a little to much but it sure looks like a set up to me and the Women do sound like a bunch of Namby Pamby's to me. I do not agree with Vowels very often but he might be right on this one. I wonder if he held a meeting with the team and Miller only and then with each of the girls.
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Post by bigchuck on Jan 22, 2021 22:20:10 GMT -5
UP
You are making a lot of assumptions from few facts. I would expect them to play better than last year. They were among the youngest teams in Div 1 last year. The new transfers had experience also. We had one senior last year. I thought the players could have been worked harder last year, but I think we should be following the rules. I am shocked that we apparently had little oversight of the program that this could happen out of the blue. We know the background of who we hired. We believe in second chances and have given Gilbert the opportunity. That's fine and I was looking forward to future successes. But good management dictates that there should have been close oversight of the program. This did not happen. I know some of the parents I do not believe they would be complicit in a plot. Among the parents are high school coaches and former collegiate athletes both men and women. For every family to be involved in the "plot" is a stretch, but possible. I am not saying fire the coach. I am saying that she should be sidelined pending an investigation. If your assumptions are correct, it will come out. If they are not, that will come out. I also believe that the season should not have been cancelled. Other teams have continued while coaches have been sidelined. Women's basketball should be no different.
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