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Post by calihanmole on Jan 26, 2021 10:17:56 GMT -5
What sucks is that most of this stuff is going to come down to she said v she said. Sure, the coach probably committed some blatant violations such as going over practice sometimes. But the demeanor and attitude she displayed can be debated as far as what is appropriate and what actually happened.
It sounds like she will ultimately be fired, and that it’s the best decision. But I see a wrongful termination suit. This will likely end up costing our athletics department a ton of time and our university a ton of money. At a moment when COVID is already costing resources and all schools are trying to be smart about their cash. Just awful timing.
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Post by upbasketballfan on Feb 9, 2021 10:26:29 GMT -5
I am starting to worry that Vowels is handling this like he has handled most coaching decisions while he has been our AD. The , this has plenty of time let me go over to Ferndale for a couple burgers and I'll take care of this later. Thus we have had men's and women's programs trying to play catch up on the recruiting trails and coaches ending up with players who do have issues or are not D1 caliber. Vowels did it prolonging the hires of BA, Davis and Gilbert. There has definitely been enough time for a decision here. I am hoping Gilbert stays and the players who wish to not play for her, given their releases to play for a coach that better fits their abilities.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 7:22:33 GMT -5
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Post by motorcitysam on Feb 11, 2021 12:40:33 GMT -5
That situation is just going to get messier.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 8:05:19 GMT -5
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Post by upbasketballfan on Feb 17, 2021 11:51:52 GMT -5
Sorry to see Fox leave she was a scrapper but really out of position at the 5. I expected to see Webb enter. The power play has started. I really hope Vowels doesn't cave to this. Looks like the Women's program has been set back about 3 years regardless of what happens from this point forward.
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Post by motorcitysam on Feb 17, 2021 14:14:13 GMT -5
I am reminded of the exchange from No Country For Old Men:
Deputy: "It's a mess, ain't it, Sheriff?"
Sheriff: "If it ain't, it will do until the mess gets here."
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Post by upbasketballfan on Feb 17, 2021 15:44:54 GMT -5
I am reminded of the exchange from No Country For Old Men: Deputy: "It's a mess, ain't it, Sheriff?" Sheriff: "If it ain't, it will do until the mess gets here." This group lost me the minute they contacted the media instead of working through the AD. The more I think about this situation the more I think Vowels made the right decision to cancel the season. I hope he hands anyone a release that is compliant with this and wishes them well. If I were in another program and one of the players who must all be at least 18 and condoned this letter by their parents, applied to my program, I would have a difficult time taking them aboard. I wouldn't want to walk on eggs for the next 2-3 yrs. with them around. This situation with the Webbs is kind of similar to BA's episode with JJ and the Camerons, except they didn't run to the media.
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Post by ptctitan on Feb 18, 2021 8:12:37 GMT -5
It is a mess; but I will wait for the results of the investigation being conducted by outside personnel, likely a law firm. Usually, it takes more than 4 weeks to complete an investigation like this one. While I am saddened by the decisions of these players to leave, they and their parents chose their course of action. The fact that they miscalculated Vowels' reaction is unfortunate for them; but this possibility should have been easily seen once they made their mental health claims and made their play for Webb as head coach.
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Post by motorcitysam on Feb 18, 2021 9:38:06 GMT -5
When I say it's a mess, I'm not assigning blame to either side. I'm just sad that we have another situation at the University where we actually have "sides" in another off the court conflict. The sooner the program can get past this, the better.
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Post by upbasketballfan on Feb 18, 2021 10:47:10 GMT -5
It is a mess; but I will wait for the results of the investigation being conducted by outside personnel, likely a law firm. Usually, it takes more than 4 weeks to complete an investigation like this one. While I am saddened by the decisions of these players to leave, they and their parents chose their course of action. The fact that they miscalculated Vowels' reaction is unfortunate for them; but this possibility should have been easily seen once they made their mental health claims and made their play for Webb as head coach. Shouldn't our AD perform his own investigation first and then determine if an outside source is necessary? If he did have his own investigation he should be able to complete that in 2 weeks unless he had something with a higher priority and I can not imagine what could be more pressing than this issue. Their going to the press with this is very selfish and to me unacceptable.
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Post by ptctitan on Feb 18, 2021 10:56:07 GMT -5
It is a mess; but I will wait for the results of the investigation being conducted by outside personnel, likely a law firm. Usually, it takes more than 4 weeks to complete an investigation like this one. While I am saddened by the decisions of these players to leave, they and their parents chose their course of action. The fact that they miscalculated Vowels' reaction is unfortunate for them; but this possibility should have been easily seen once they made their mental health claims and made their play for Webb as head coach. Shouldn't our AD perform his own investigation first and then determine if an outside source is necessary? If he did have his own investigation he should be able to complete that in 2 weeks unless he had something with a higher priority and I can not imagine what could be more pressing than this issue. Their going to the press with this is very selfish and to me unacceptable. It's customary to bring in an outside investigator when players make abuse allegations like the ones made here. This removes an appearance of bias. It also gets the AD himself off the hot seat because he can say that he followed the recommendations of the outside person.
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Post by upbasketballfan on Feb 18, 2021 11:27:07 GMT -5
Shouldn't our AD perform his own investigation first and then determine if an outside source is necessary? If he did have his own investigation he should be able to complete that in 2 weeks unless he had something with a higher priority and I can not imagine what could be more pressing than this issue. Their going to the press with this is very selfish and to me unacceptable. It's customary to bring in an outside investigator when players make abuse allegations like the ones made here. This removes an appearance of bias. It also gets the AD himself off the hot seat because he can say that he followed the recommendations of the outside person. It sure feels to me like an excuse not to do what the AD is payed to do. We supposedly have our Assist. AD present for a majority of these complaints so how much research is necessary? For a University always asking for money and pleading for help this sure looks like pissing away $. We seem to pay out a lot of $ to outside sources to help us do what we are paid to do. How many of these problems could be handled internally by our own law or business schools? Example, the research on the rebrand could have been done internally and not only would we help our students with experience but we could have kept the $ internal and I am positive the result couldn't be weaker than what we paid for. I was in the process of purchasing 4 pictures for our season ticket seats until I found out that the money was being contributed elsewhere. Two or three days later I would have been demanding my contribution back. Kudos to guys like Big Chuck and your other Alumni who hang in there and keep supporting all of this stupidity. If I ran my affairs by this blueprint I would be bankrupt. I guess the powers that be at Liv. and 6 assume there is an unending supply of cash.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Feb 18, 2021 12:40:38 GMT -5
IMO, best to outsource an independent investigation. The AD has conflict of interests, or at minimum the situational variables raise the appearance of such a conflict. For example, NCAA violations have been alleged, arguably the AD might not want the facts to emerge to spare the University and WBB program from penalties. The coach may have (or may not have) violated NCAA rules that affect whether her contract can be terminated, the AD and school have a legal and financial interest in how all that plays out. Whether the AD and Assistant AD exercised proper oversight over the WBB program is also in question. I hate to see good money being spent on stuff like this, but an outside investigation would seem to be the prudent path to take.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 11:42:34 GMT -5
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