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Post by bigchuck on Apr 17, 2021 7:38:46 GMT -5
I wonder if FGU will hire Webb as an assistant. You would think someone in the Athletic Dept. would realize that history does repeat itself. We just finished an uncomfortable experience in our basketball program with fathers being assist. coaches,( Chatman and JJ ) and in we go again. I have wondered if BA's flare up with Jones was fanned internally. Izzo does have an opening but I am pretty sure he will not hire Bates as an assistant. FGCU is a perennial top 25-40 women's team with a full coaching staff right now. They don't need to hire Webb to recruit players as good as her. The moral of this story is that if you try to kill the coach, you better have collected the receipts before you act. Otherwise, your effort will look like a copy and paste job and then devolve into a "she said-she said" controversy with no one outside the antagonists able to offer any evidence one way or the other. And I agree with Commissioner, why is Asst. Coach Webb still on staff? Pay him through June 30 but get him off the website. I'm still angriest at the Associate AD who was supposed to have been supervising this team and should have been in position to deal with this issue early on before it had metastasized into the negative PR. That was her duty. The complainers went directly to Vowels instead of the program supervisor. That does not speak well about that Associate AD. I disagree with your moral of the story. There have been two other women's head coaches relieved of their jobs in the last couple of years for far less egregious claims by the student athletes. One was a 25 year coach with a consistent record of competitive teams and graduating students.
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Post by ptctitan on Apr 17, 2021 8:06:01 GMT -5
In the other situations, the complaints had the receipts or an admission by the head coach to improper behavior. Now that we have sent our report to the NCAA in response to the players' complaints through their parents, the matter remains open until the NCAA decides if it will do anything. The parents' letter is not proof of anything.
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Post by upbasketballfan on Apr 17, 2021 10:16:34 GMT -5
I personally do not think the parents have any business being involved in this and for me it is what tainted the situation. I also would like to know why the associate AD was not approached and copies were sent right off the get go to the media and the NCAA. This is what sent all the flags up for me. They were not willing to discuss a solution but wanted to dictate the outcome. Nothing good could come from how this was handled. It was a free year so no one was losing a year of eligibility if they chose to leave. Trying to keep together a weak team does not have a benefit. There had to be a few players who wanted to improve and win. Keeping things together like a social club is not the complete answer just a small step in the right direction. You can love your teammates but your liking them will not make them better players. If they are in over their heads then that is just a poor situation getting worse. For what it's worth I did watch every game and I did see more than once where Webb stood on the sideline and shouted to the players while Gilbert sat with the other assistants calmly watching the game and seemed to give Webb a glance or two. Maybe being involved in multiple situations similar to this has influenced my opinion. Chuck what is your take on this?
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Post by bigchuck on Apr 17, 2021 14:21:08 GMT -5
I personally do not think the parents have any business being involved in this and for me it is what tainted the situation. I also would like to know why the associate AD was not approached and copies were sent right off the get go to the media and the NCAA. This is what sent all the flags up for me. They were not willing to discuss a solution but wanted to dictate the outcome. Nothing good could come from how this was handled. It was a free year so no one was losing a year of eligibility if they chose to leave. Trying to keep together a weak team does not have a benefit. There had to be a few players who wanted to improve and win. Keeping things together like a social club is not the complete answer just a small step in the right direction. You can love your teammates but your liking them will not make them better players. If they are in over their heads then that is just a poor situation getting worse. For what it's worth I did watch every game and I did see more than once where Webb stood on the sideline and shouted to the players while Gilbert sat with the other assistants calmly watching the game and seemed to give Webb a glance or two. Maybe being involved in multiple situations similar to this has influenced my opinion. Chuck what is your take on this? I think you are being too tough on the parents. Remember this season took place in the middle of COVID. The athletes were on campus mostly alone and isolated. Campus is deserted, Callahan Hall was not open much. None of the normal campus activity is taking place. They were unable to go home because of restrictions and quarantines. Imagine you are a parent. watching your child go through that. Now add to the situation a toxic team environment. There can be no question that no matter what or who was the cause it was a toxic environment. You watch your child (no matter what age!) slip into a bad state. None of the things you have recommended her to do have resulted in any changes. When do you step in and do what you can. Your initial steps are met with absolutely no response. Then you start talking to other parents and find out many of them are in the same boat. Are you suggesting there is never a point at which you would step in? I know there is a point where I would. And in response to ptc's comments about she said vs she said. It was hardly that at all. It was not 1 player, it was not 3-4 players, it was the entire team. Did you see one statement of support from anyone who knew anything? Do the players have a track record of lying and exaggerating? Does the coach have a spotless record? Based on what we publicly know, it would be a slam dunk case. in most Civil courts. The statement the University put out is an indictment of itself. They stated they made changes to make sure they would be able to maintain the standards and value of the university. It did not say any of the allegations were unfounded. It did not say that the program had maintained those standards in the Women's basketball program. It said we are making changes to make sure we can in the future. There is a lot that the statement does not say or address. If you don't have something good to say, say as little as possible. I just heard today about another young lady leaving the program. She was never going to be a star but is a great young lady. The University failed her and no one will convince me any different. She could have stayed and finished without playing basketball, but despite loving everything else about UDM, just wanted out and to continue playing basketball at another school. I wish her and others the best of luck.
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Post by ptctitan on Apr 18, 2021 7:26:07 GMT -5
Scott was 9-80 during his last three seasons with his type of player.
The fact that Gilbert was retained informs us the most about the validity of the allegations in the parents email.
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Post by Commissioner on Apr 18, 2021 9:17:42 GMT -5
This reminds me a bit of the player walk-outs on Jim Harding back in the early 70s. And it wasn't just 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 players, it was the whole squad. There's no question that Harding was -- to put it nicely -- a "strict disciplinarian." To read old press interviews with Harding is to come away thinking, "what a jerk." Harding inherited a team recruited by the popular, easy-going Bob Calihan, and the players revolted--literally walking out--over Harding's tough discipline and demanding personality. But Harding stayed, and the players eventually came back (in those days transferring wasn't so easy). The Titans let Harding serve out his contract, and it was not renewed, despite considerable success on the floor (34-15 over his last two seasons, including a crushing win over #2 Marquette, which led briefly to a #18 national ranking; the Titans missed out on NIT bids due to an unintentional and unknown use of ineligible player, and Harding's own lack of diplomacy, ripping into the selection committee when they were still considering the Titans). Frank Russell, one of the players on Harding's teams who went on to the NBA, later said (from memory, so I may not have this exact) "if I had to do it again, I'd still go to UD, and I'd want Coach Harding to coach me." Russell knew Harding had turned him from a good player into an NBA player. The man could coach.
He was a total a-hole by most all accounts, and at some level the players were probably justified, at least in part, in their grievances. But college kids are young. They didn't handle it in the best possible way. There were two sides to the story. I don't know if Harding learned much (he doesn't come across in the historical record as a very self-reflective man), but I expect the players did learn from the experience.
I don't know how this current situation will play out, and I certainly don't know the details, but my gut says there were errors all around. Without knowing more, I have the least sympathy for the parents, who appear to have acted inappropriately, and who probably would have been better to offer quiet advice to their kids, but otherwise let them handle it--and learn from it--as the young adult women they are.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2021 16:04:25 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2021 10:00:39 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 16:01:34 GMT -5
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Post by motorcitysam on May 6, 2021 16:06:42 GMT -5
What a mess. I think this next season is just going to be a wash.
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Post by udm111 on May 6, 2021 17:50:49 GMT -5
Who are the remaining two player projected to return for the 2021-22 season?
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Post by joseph75 on May 6, 2021 18:11:27 GMT -5
All that remain are: Alicia Nornam ( a JR Detroit, MI Macomb CC) and Nicole Johanson (R-JR Herscher, IL Valparaiso) Still waiting for Vowels to release the outcome of the "Investigation"
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Post by Rogobob77 on May 6, 2021 19:24:33 GMT -5
All that remain are: Alicia Nornam ( a JR Detroit, MI Macomb CC) and Nicole Johanson (R-JR Herscher, IL Valparaiso) Still waiting for Vowels to release the outcome of the "Investigation" Scoring averages for those two returning players are 2.5 ppg and 1.3 ppg playing on a 1-13 team.
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Post by ptctitan on May 7, 2021 2:06:17 GMT -5
All that remain are: Alicia Nornam ( a JR Detroit, MI Macomb CC) and Nicole Johanson (R-JR Herscher, IL Valparaiso) Still waiting for Vowels to release the outcome of the "Investigation" Scoring averages for those two returning players are 2.5 ppg and 1.3 ppg playing on a 1-13 team. I believe those two players are the tallest and shortest players on last year's roster. Norman is 5'1" and Johanson is 6'5".
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 9:16:43 GMT -5
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