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Post by motorcitysam on Aug 22, 2023 18:55:13 GMT -5
That makes me suspect two things: One, we lose money on home games. Two, we really need that buy game money. Three, we owed away games to Toledo, SIUE, Ohio, and CMU. We played three home games last year in the non-conference, if I'm not mistaken. I think it was two the year before. Owing return games might be a factor this year, but a small number of home games seems to be a consistent thing.
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Post by lurker on Aug 23, 2023 7:03:59 GMT -5
Also, 826,000 reasons (626,000 HC, 200,000 Top Assistant) to schedule all those buy games. 😳
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Post by ptctitan on Aug 23, 2023 7:29:48 GMT -5
The 990 for 2022 shows Davis' reportable compensation at $444,859 and no assistant coach listed.
In McCallum's final year, his reportable compensation was $534,000
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Post by Commissioner on Aug 23, 2023 9:29:34 GMT -5
There's 31 regular season games, and we've got a home exhibition against Wayne State. You start with 10 home, 10 road in conference. That leaves 11 non-conference games after the HL schedule. But that includes 2-3 as part of an MTE. Unless we host our own MTE--which you can only do once every 3 years, and on which we would probably lose a bundle of cash--that leaves 8-9 non-conference games. If you schedule 2 buy games, that leaves six non-conference games. If you schedule 6 mid-majors for home and home series with a perfect rotating balance (i.e. 3 at home, 3 on the road each year) that means you get 13 home games (10 conference, 3 non-conference) and 18 away games. Have just a 2 game MTE and one more mid-major H&H opponent, and every other year you can get a 4th home game. In other words, 12-14 home games is just how it is for most mid-majors these days. There are a few upper mid-majors that draw well--such as Utah State and maybe even a Toledo or two--that can pay low D-1 teams to come in to boost those numbers, but not many. We could get more home games by buying non-D1 teams, if you want to play Indiana Tech, Westminster, UM-Dearborn, Defiance, etc. Personally, I would not be at all adverse to one such game on the regular season schedule--part of my "chalk up some Ws" philosophy of scheduling--but recognize that's what you're talking about. Look at the HL non-conference schedules here: udtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/post/40761Here is what you've got: Titans: Home/Away 12/19. Home non-conference (HNC): EMU, Ball State Cleveland State: 16/15. HNC: Defiance, Ohio U., Canisius, WMU, 2 TBD for own MTE. Green Bay: 13/18. HNC: St. Francis of Illinois, UIC, Milwaukee School of Engineering IUPUI: 14/17. HNC: Spalding, Lindenwood, Defiance, Cleary Milwaukee: 12/16 (schedule incomplete). HNC: Wisconsin-Stout, Chattanooga NKU: 13/15 (schedule incomplete). HNC: Long Island, Texas A&M-Corpus Christi (these two for own MTE), Florida Atlantic Oakland: 12/19. HNC: Bowling Green, Toledo. Purdue Fort Wayne: 15/16. HNC: Andrews, Texas A&M-Commerce, Wittenburg, SE Missouri State, Bethune-Cookman Robert Morris: 12/13 (Schedule incomplete). HNC: Jacksonville, Fairleigh Dickinson (both for own MTE) Wright State: 13/18. HNC: Toledo, Muskingum, Western Kentucky. YSU: 16/15. HNC: Utah Tech, Niagara (these two as part of own MTE), Western Illinois, Bethany, Westminster, Navy. And a quick counting of Home games against D-1 teams not part of own MTE: Titans - 2CSU - 3 (+2 own MTE) Green Bay - 1 IUPUI - 1 Milwaukee - 1 Northern Kentucky - 1 (+2 own MTE) Oakland - 2 Purdue Fort Wayne - 3 Robert Morris - 0 (+ 2 own MTE) Wright State - 2 Youngstown State - 2 (+2 own MTE) In other words, if you're not playing non-D1 teams or hosting your once every three year own MTE, you're not playing more than 3 home non-conference games, which means 13 home/18 away for the year at best. Look, I think we can do better. I'd schedule that one non-D1 team (NCAA rules allow up to 4 such games--IUPUI has 3 scheduled this year; Green Bay, PFW and YSU have 2 each). I'd try to find a way for us to host an MTE, as about half our conference has done in recent years. But we've also got to be realistic. The Dick Vitale/Jim Harding/Bob Calihan days of playing 2/3rds of the schedule at home are over.
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Post by Commissioner on Aug 23, 2023 9:37:43 GMT -5
I don't understand the fixation some have on the coach's salary. Sure at some level, if you're going to lose every year, it might be better to lose on the cheap. But if we're winning 20 games every year, I don't care if he's paid a lot. And if we're losing every year, I don't want to keep the coach just because he's paid relatively little.
If trying to make sure our coach is at the lower end of the pay scale becomes an objective of the program, then it is truly over.
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Post by fan on Aug 23, 2023 11:38:11 GMT -5
I guess the whole point in regard to the salary, whatever the number is, we are in the 6th year under the MD leadership, did the school or team or fans get their money's worth? Short have AD's 4 years I see nothing positive that has happened to the program under MD.
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Post by Commissioner on Aug 23, 2023 12:33:41 GMT -5
I guess the whole point in regard to the salary, whatever the number is, we are in the 6th year under the MD leadership, did the school or team or fans get their money's worth? Short have AD's 4 years I see nothing positive that has happened to the program under MD. Sure, but if we were winning, we "would have gotten our money's worth" regardless of salary, and in losing, we haven't, and that would be case if we were paying him Jerry Slocum wages (unless our goal is merely to have a body in the seat so we can claim to be D-1, and we don't care if we win). It's the second sentence of your post that matters. The salary is pretty much irrelevant.
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Post by fan on Aug 23, 2023 14:24:48 GMT -5
In perspective when they did hire MD, he seemed like a good hire, he was seasoned and certainly had a pedigree, and they got AD with the hire. So the money, if MD worked out seemed fair. But six years later, the only thing to show for all that money is 5 years of watching AD draining 3's, the program is at best, no better.
We lose games, we play to small to small crowds at the few home games we have, and we play in a marginal league, that's the facts. So we're down to talking about how much we pay the guy that got us there.
So I guess at this point the salary is the most relevant issue. Because...........I don't see the team winning more games, or playing to bigger home crowds, or just growing the program. The only
thing that seems stabilized is the money.
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Post by hyperion on Aug 24, 2023 9:06:40 GMT -5
I’m 100% with FAN on this.
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Post by JDetroitTitan on Aug 24, 2023 9:24:51 GMT -5
I somewhat agree with fan except for the big home crowds just because a portion of his time was during COVID and it's ridiculous lockdown measures. At the end of the day COVID hurt entertainment and people gathering for big events. I still have a group of friends that do less to this day. Another problem was self inflicted with the APR rating and band.
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Post by fan on Aug 24, 2023 12:05:52 GMT -5
The COVID event is a limited factor, there was a home crowd problem before the lockdowns, and it continues. I believe as a college basketball fan, if we had a competitive team, playing interesting teams at home (Dayton, Xavier etc.) instead of the Wright States of the world, people would come. There is really nothing wrong with the Hall, the parking is secure, it's easy in and out, the viewing is good, and the city or its image has improved, it's the product that is bad. If your student base won't support the team, you have to look to go after the basketball fans for support, or maybe the school should get out of the basketball business.
As a kid, back when any HS player would have given their right arm to play for the team where Dave, or Spenser, or John, or Terry played. Have times changed, sure, but I think there are enough kids who would jump to play with "Detroit" on their shirts. Maybe it's MD they don't want to play for.....
If I were king, I'd cut the whole program loose, stay in the HL, and go after some young and hungry people who think this is a good job, a good school, and a good opportunity. We have a guy coaching now, who has his ring, is likely financially secure, and seems to have or almost have accomplished his goal with AD. Does he have enough gas to get us to the promised land, it doesn't seem so.
As the situation continues it can only get worse.
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Post by motorcitysam on Aug 24, 2023 13:08:15 GMT -5
The COVID event is a limited factor, there was a home crowd problem before the lockdowns, and it continues. I believe as a college basketball fan, if we had a competitive team, playing interesting teams at home (Dayton, Xavier etc.) instead of the Wright States of the world, people would come. There is really nothing wrong with the Hall, the parking is secure, it's easy in and out, the viewing is good, and the city or its image has improved, it's the product that is bad. If your student base won't support the team, you have to look to go after the basketball fans for support, or maybe the school should get out of the basketball business. As a kid, back when any HS player would have given their right arm to play for the team where Dave, or Spenser, or John, or Terry played. Have times changed, sure, but I think there are enough kids who would jump to play with "Detroit" on their shirts. Maybe it's MD they don't want to play for..... If I were king, I'd cut the whole program loose, stay in the HL, and go after some young and hungry people who think this is a good job, a good school, and a good opportunity. We have a guy coaching now, who has his ring, is likely financially secure, and seems to have or almost have accomplished his goal with AD. Does he have enough gas to get us to the promised land, it doesn't seem so. As the situation continues it can only get worse. Maybe they don't want to play with "Mercy" on their shirts. Truthfully, I don't think there are many mid major programs that hold that kind of allure with their local youth. Kids are different today. Local kids dream of playing for Michigan State or Michigan, but I don't think they differentiate much between us, CMU, WMU, EMU, or Oakland. Our basketball history is the only thing that separates us from our state mid major rivals, and or own leadership doesn't seem to think that history is important. I don't expect kids who are in high school to care much about it if we aren't celebrating it ourselves. One thing that seems clear in the past twenty years is that simply putting forth a competitive team doesn't do much for attendance. Perry won a couple of tournament games and made it to the NIT Final Four and there were plenty of good seats available in the house. During the stretch where the Titans won 20 games three years in a row and made the NCAA tournament and NIT, attendance was not good at all (even though we'd love to get those numbers today). I don't know if Davis is guy who can turn it around, but I think the struggles that he has had here says more about this program than it does about him. Maybe a new guy would do better, but I don't think this is a program that where just anyone can be successful. You have to be sure to make a great hire.
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Post by Commissioner on Aug 24, 2023 15:36:24 GMT -5
There's 31 regular season games, and we've got a home exhibition against Wayne State. You start with 10 home, 10 road in conference. That leaves 11 non-conference games after the HL schedule. But that includes 2-3 as part of an MTE. Unless we host our own MTE--which you can only do once every 3 years, and on which we would probably lose a bundle of cash--that leaves 8-9 non-conference games. If you schedule 2 buy games, that leaves six non-conference games. If you schedule 6 mid-majors for home and home series with a perfect rotating balance (i.e. 3 at home, 3 on the road each year) that means you get 13 home games (10 conference, 3 non-conference) and 18 away games. Have just a 2 game MTE and one more mid-major H&H opponent, and every other year you can get a 4th home game. In other words, 12-14 home games is just how it is for most mid-majors these days. There are a few upper mid-majors that draw well--such as Utah State and maybe even a Toledo or two--that can pay low D-1 teams to come in to boost those numbers, but not many. We could get more home games by buying non-D1 teams, if you want to play Indiana Tech, Westminster, UM-Dearborn, Defiance, etc. Personally, I would not be at all adverse to one such game on the regular season schedule--part of my "chalk up some Ws" philosophy of scheduling--but recognize that's what you're talking about. Look at the HL non-conference schedules here: udtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/post/40761Here is what you've got: Titans: Home/Away 12/19. Home non-conference (HNC): EMU, Ball State Cleveland State: 16/15. HNC: Defiance, Ohio U., Canisius, WMU, 2 TBD for own MTE. Green Bay: 13/18. HNC: St. Francis of Illinois, UIC, Milwaukee School of Engineering IUPUI: 14/17. HNC: Spalding, Lindenwood, Defiance, Cleary Milwaukee: 12/16 (schedule incomplete). HNC: Wisconsin-Stout, Chattanooga NKU: 13/15 (schedule incomplete). HNC: Long Island, Texas A&M-Corpus Christi (these two for own MTE), Florida Atlantic Oakland: 12/19. HNC: Bowling Green, Toledo. Purdue Fort Wayne: 15/16. HNC: Andrews, Texas A&M-Commerce, Wittenburg, SE Missouri State, Bethune-Cookman Robert Morris: 12/13 (Schedule incomplete). HNC: Jacksonville, Fairleigh Dickinson (both for own MTE) Wright State: 13/18. HNC: Toledo, Muskingum, Western Kentucky. YSU: 16/15. HNC: Utah Tech, Niagara (these two as part of own MTE), Western Illinois, Bethany, Westminster, Navy. And a quick counting of Home games against D-1 teams not part of own MTE: Titans - 2CSU - 3 (+2 own MTE) Green Bay - 1 IUPUI - 1 Milwaukee - 1 Northern Kentucky - 1 (+2 own MTE) Oakland - 2 Purdue Fort Wayne - 3 Robert Morris - 0 (+ 2 own MTE) Wright State - 2 Youngstown State - 2 (+2 own MTE) In other words, if you're not playing non-D1 teams or hosting your once every three year own MTE, you're not playing more than 3 home non-conference games, which means 13 home/18 away for the year at best. Look, I think we can do better. I'd schedule that one non-D1 team (NCAA rules allow up to 4 such games--IUPUI has 3 scheduled this year; Green Bay, PFW and YSU have 2 each). I'd try to find a way for us to host an MTE, as about half our conference has done in recent years. But we've also got to be realistic. The Dick Vitale/Jim Harding/Bob Calihan days of playing 2/3rds of the schedule at home are over. Wright State dropped its schedule today. udtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/post/40761/thread. They filled out their last game with NAIA Bethel. But the did get a third home game against a D-1 team, as their game against Miami (Oh) will apparently be played at the Nutter rather than in Oxford.
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Post by titantarheel on Aug 24, 2023 16:55:49 GMT -5
Form 990 also reports Davis Compensation as: 2021 $593,731 2020 $637,701 2019 $229,066 *Also Bacari received $268,178 2018 Bacari took home $300,221
I'm always told on here how bad and underfunded everything is, yet I've also seen we spend more on Men's hoops than any HL team and that's been the way for years (I'll defer to someone else as the reference for that). If we lop off say $100,00 annually the past several years boom we have real money to start funding things, Road to Championship, whatever. The Davis deal has NOT been an efficient use of our limited dollars to spend/invest in the University.
Also, whoever we paid for the billboard and the 'hey at least have detroit in our name'...NOT an efficient use of our limited dollars.
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Post by nctitan on Aug 24, 2023 17:32:28 GMT -5
Form 990 also reports Davis Compensation as: 2021 $593,731 2020 $637,701 2019 $229,066 *Also Bacari received $268,178 2018 Bacari took home $300,221 I'm always told on here how bad and underfunded everything is, yet I've also seen we spend more on Men's hoops than any HL team and that's been the way for years (I'll defer to someone else as the reference for that). If we lop off say $100,00 annually the past several years boom we have real money to start funding things, Road to Championship, whatever. The Davis deal has NOT been an efficient use of our limited dollars to spend/invest in the University. Also, whoever we paid for the billboard and the 'hey at least have detroit in our name'...NOT an efficient use of our limited dollars. I thought that one reason our spending on the program in part refelected the cost of the scholarships, and because our private college tuition is considerably higher than state schools that inflates our program expenses.
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