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Post by hyperion on Sept 4, 2023 10:58:20 GMT -5
I’m biting my nails (and SMH) in anticipation of all this drama. Could be the difference between 11-19 or 14-16.
Happy Labor Day Holiday to everyone.
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Post by motorcitysam on Sept 4, 2023 12:29:22 GMT -5
So we are waiting on word re Tchikou, Fuller and Stone? And the son of the NBA Hall of Famer? My guess would be that neither Alex or PJ are going to get a waiver. That's why I didn't include them when guessing at a starting lineup for this season. Either the school is still waiting on the NCAA to make a ruling, got bad news and appealed it, or it is known that the decisions are final and we just haven't announced it yet. Might not find out until media Day. Regarding Stone, I guess it's a good sign that he is reportedly on campus and attending classes. He would certainly be welcomed back, as we need scorers, but I'm reluctant to get too excited about the possibility, given recent events regarding player eligibility.
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Post by fan on Sept 4, 2023 15:19:06 GMT -5
We could field a team with players that 'didn't" make it.
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Post by motorcitysam on Sept 4, 2023 17:41:59 GMT -5
We could field a team with players that 'didn't" make it. True. I still think that the trajectory of the Titan program would be very different if Lorenzo Bonam and Coreontae DeBerry, who later played at Utah and Cincinnati, had been able to academically qualify after signing with the Titans under Ray. That's a lead guard and a big man who would have definitely been factors in the HL.
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Post by ptctitan on Sept 5, 2023 5:21:37 GMT -5
So we are waiting on word re Tchikou, Fuller and Stone? And the son of the NBA Hall of Famer? My guess would be that neither Alex or PJ are going to get a waiver. That's why I didn't include them when guessing at a starting lineup for this season. Either the school is still waiting on the NCAA to make a ruling, got bad news and appealed it, or it is known that the decisions are final and we just haven't announced it yet. Might not find out until media Day. Regarding Stone, I guess it's a good sign that he is reportedly on campus and attending classes. He would certainly be welcomed back, as we need scorers, but I'm reluctant to get too excited about the possibility, given recent events regarding player eligibility. Stone does not require NCAA approval to play. The school will certify that he is or is not making adequate progress towards a degree. Tchikou is in the same position as any transfer in the past up to and including Waterman. Without a waiver, he must sit out a year. We were OK with this when Ray brought in Holman, Lowe, Simon, Howard, and Jenkins. We just got spoiled recently by the NCAA's relaxed waiver policy from 2017-20. We aren't the only school in the same situation with players on their rosters who are second-time transfers seeking waivers. UNC football is still involved in an appeal of the NCAA's denial of a waiver to Tez Walker. He missed the Tar Heels first game. If the power conference football schools aren't getting their appeals heard on time, then the problem on timeliness may be an NCAA issue. Therefore, I don't expect any player's waiver process to be smooth if they are part of the 80% denied initially by the NCAA.
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Post by fan on Sept 5, 2023 7:17:55 GMT -5
I'm sure that's true, but basketball is not football there are just so many spots if after time one or two players that were being counted on don't make it, it leaves a big hole. There must be a better way than front-loading a rooster with transfers, maybe go back to recruiting HS or JC players. I don't know, but the current system doesn't seem to be working for us.
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Post by upbasketballfan on Sept 5, 2023 9:26:53 GMT -5
This is not a one year issue at UD it raises it’s ugly head every year. I would think if we were not stupid that we would learn that our approach is flawed. At other schools once they do become eligible it seems they stay awhile. We spent half the season getting them on the court then the entire team has to adjust to absorb them and then they leave some not even finishing the initial season. I think this has happened every season since MD came to Detroit except his first season where he had to reach out and grab anyone available due to his hire being so late in the year. It is obvious to me that MD is an inferior recruiter when compared with Ray and BA.
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Post by rbj on Sept 5, 2023 10:49:21 GMT -5
This is not a one year issue at UD it raises it’s ugly head every year. I would think if we were not stupid that we would learn that our approach is flawed. At other schools once they do become eligible it seems they stay awhile. We spent half the season getting them on the court then the entire team has to adjust to absorb them and then they leave some not even finishing the initial season. I think this has happened every season since MD came to Detroit except his first season where he had to reach out and grab anyone available due to his hire being so late in the year. It is obvious to me that MD is an inferior recruiter when compared with Ray and BA. When it comes to recruiting Mike Davis couldn't carry coach McCallums jock strap.
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Post by larrytitan on Sept 5, 2023 11:17:17 GMT -5
My guess would be that neither Alex or PJ are going to get a waiver. That's why I didn't include them when guessing at a starting lineup for this season. Either the school is still waiting on the NCAA to make a ruling, got bad news and appealed it, or it is known that the decisions are final and we just haven't announced it yet. Might not find out until media Day. Regarding Stone, I guess it's a good sign that he is reportedly on campus and attending classes. He would certainly be welcomed back, as we need scorers, but I'm reluctant to get too excited about the possibility, given recent events regarding player eligibility. Stone does not require NCAA approval to play. The school will certify that he is or is not making adequate progress towards a degree. Tchikou is in the same position as any transfer in the past up to and including Waterman. Without a waiver, he must sit out a year. We were OK with this when Ray brought in Holman, Lowe, Simon, Howard, and Jenkins. We just got spoiled recently by the NCAA's relaxed waiver policy’s from 2017-20. We aren't the only school in the same situation with players on their rosters who are second-time transfers seeking waivers. UNC football is still involved in an appeal of the NCAA's denial of a waiver to Tez Walker. He missed the Tar Heels first game. If the power conference football schools aren't getting their appeals heard on time, then the problem on timeliness may be an NCAA issue. Therefore, I don't expect any player's waiver process to be smooth if they are part of the 80% denied initially by the NCAA.
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Post by larrytitan on Sept 5, 2023 11:25:46 GMT -5
The difference with MDs transfers and previous such as Holman, Simon, etc is that we would only have one transfer per year sitting out the season. This year, we have at least three in doubt..Tovar, Fuller and Tchikou. And Tovar, of course, is now gone. As for MDs recruiting prowess, it’s difficult to succeed when you recruit from your office and employ a staff of good old boys and your son. Of the three players we are waiting on, I am hoping that Stone and Tchikou are available.
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Post by motorcitysam on Sept 5, 2023 11:32:40 GMT -5
My guess would be that neither Alex or PJ are going to get a waiver. That's why I didn't include them when guessing at a starting lineup for this season. Either the school is still waiting on the NCAA to make a ruling, got bad news and appealed it, or it is known that the decisions are final and we just haven't announced it yet. Might not find out until media Day. Regarding Stone, I guess it's a good sign that he is reportedly on campus and attending classes. He would certainly be welcomed back, as we need scorers, but I'm reluctant to get too excited about the possibility, given recent events regarding player eligibility. Stone does not require NCAA approval to play. The school will certify that he is or is not making adequate progress towards a degree. Tchikou is in the same position as any transfer in the past up to and including Waterman. Without a waiver, he must sit out a year. We were OK with this when Ray brought in Holman, Lowe, Simon, Howard, and Jenkins. We just got spoiled recently by the NCAA's relaxed waiver policy from 2017-20. We aren't the only school in the same situation with players on their rosters who are second-time transfers seeking waivers. UNC football is still involved in an appeal of the NCAA's denial of a waiver to Tez Walker. He missed the Tar Heels first game. If the power conference football schools aren't getting their appeals heard on time, then the problem on timeliness may be an NCAA issue. Therefore, I don't expect any player's waiver process to be smooth if they are part of the 80% denied initially by the NCAA. Yeah, I'm aware that Stone doesn't require NCAA approval. My concerns with him lie in the uncertainty of him actually having done the required work and the previous shortcomings of the University staff. The recruiting landscape has drastically changed in the 10 plus years since Ray brought in the majority of those players. The first time transfer exception didn't exist, so everyone expected transfers to sit. The exception exists now, which is why I was glad to see the first time transfers we got, and less excited by the guys who needed a waiver. I do think Davis was right to go after guys like Alex, but their availability was always going to be left up to the NCAA. I'm not beating up on Davis about that; it's just part of the game right now. And that part of the game hits a school like Detroit extra hard.
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Post by motorcitysam on Sept 5, 2023 11:59:27 GMT -5
I'm sure that's true, but basketball is not football there are just so many spots if after time one or two players that were being counted on don't make it, it leaves a big hole. There must be a better way than front-loading a rooster with transfers, maybe go back to recruiting HS or JC players. I don't know, but the current system doesn't seem to be working for us. I have long been in favor of making JUCO players a big part of the recruiting strategy at Detroit. Sure, some JUCO players work out and some don't, but you can say that about transfers, high school players, overseas players, etc. I think one advantage with a JUCO player is that you have time to build a relationship with him and get to know him during the recruiting cycle, rather than a rushed recruitment beginning in March when a transfer hits the portal. But you need to put the time an effort into recruiting those JUCOs, not make first contact with them in the Spring and Summer prior to the season, when you're scrambling to find players.
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Post by motorcitysam on Sept 5, 2023 12:46:48 GMT -5
Recruiting is about finding that intersection between the guys you want and the guys you can get. It's a tough business, even tougher at a school like U-D, and even that is made tougher by current trends in college basketball. Recruiting is harder for everyone, and to borrow a saying, when the high majors sneeze, the mid majors catch Covid. NIL, the portal, prep schools, etc., have made things that much more difficult.
I think Ray was a really good recruiter. He was dealing with the same systemic issues in the Titan program that BA and MD have dealt with, but managed to bring in some really good players. He helped himself with winning records and tangible examples of players exceeding expectations with the Titans. However, even Ray had his misses and difficulties. But so has a guy like Izzo. No one bats 1.000.
It's hard to say how good a recruiter BA was. He got some promising players, but three of them (Jackson, Chatman, Prince) were a direct result of adding JJ Sr. and Chatman to the coaching staff. I thought he was doing an okay job overall in that area, but his tenure was cut short, obviously. We'll probably never know what kind of recruiter he would be in the long run.
Davis was a good recruiter at each of his previous stops. He's certainly had his issues here. I think he expected to do better, but I also don't think he's had a tougher place to recruit from than U-D. I don't think his lack of notable success is due to laziness, or being unwilling to leave his office. I think the whole "never leaves his office to recruit" is not accurate, based mostly on an off the cuff comment he made shortly after he was hired. Maybe he has focused too much on transfers, which were a great benefit to his Texas Southern program. Maybe he needs an upgrade in his staff. Maybe he had too much confidence in his own ability to develop players and get the most out of them. Whatever the reason, we haven't gotten the difference making players we'd hope to see, and that's ultimately on the head coach, no matter what the reason. We have to start doing better.
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Post by upbasketballfan on Sept 5, 2023 13:27:27 GMT -5
The poor us look where we are. It’s harder to recruit here looks to be false. Coach Kate looks to be turning things around and she started with a lot less than Davis. When the season was over most of the players who could help the team by coming back , did! She recruited good HS players and it sounds like they are on campus. She picked up a couple of good transfers and there doesn’t seem to be a lot of drama, probably because the loose ends were tied up by a competent coaching staff. I am looking for the Women’s team to have a more competitive season than the Men! My hopes right now for the Men is that Tankersley takes a huge step forward, Stone is eligible and Hurst can contribute immediately! Right now as far as I can see they are our best path forward!
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Post by motorcitysam on Sept 5, 2023 14:23:03 GMT -5
I think there is a big difference between recruiting mid major women and recruiting mid major men in basketball. Coach Kate has signed some players, but this is year two for her. I'd say the jury is still out, even with some positive signs early on.
I'm objectively saying that it is hard to recruit to U-D. If you were Davis, what would you be selling to potential players? Good weather? No. Winning program? No. (And that's actually been typical for much of our history.) Tradition? Well, we have some, but our own administration basically ignores it, so I don't expect recruits to care about it. Large campus with a full social scene? No. Great facilities? No. Lots of amenities for student athletes? No. NIL opportunities? No. Large and engaged fan base? No. You get a better education here than at many of our competitors, but I don't think that's high on the list for many recruits.
If a player with no connection to either school had offers from EMU and U-D, what on the U-D side of the ledger pushes him our way?
When Ray was fired, there was a loud contingent of fans on this board saying that BA was going to bring in the 4 star recruits we'd been missing out on. Obviously that didn't happen. The coach always bears responsibility for the results of recruiting efforts, but it's not JUST the coach. That's all I'm saying.
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