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Post by Commissioner on Dec 31, 2021 7:04:13 GMT -5
I am really bummed by this latest. PO'd, too, because I think the policies are stupid, but others may disagree. Either way, we were looking at the best two weeks of Titan ball in a long time. We were going to sweep this weekend (of that I'm confident), AD would break the Titan scoring record, giving us some nice PR and some fun. Oakland would come into Calihan tied with us (and maybe CSU) for first place in the conference at a perfect 4-0, and with us having won 6 of 7. We were looking forward to coming up to Detroit for the OU game, which we probably won't do now even if it is played. The HL and NCAA pretty much just sucked my interest out of college hoops, for this year and quite possibly a long time.
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Post by larrytitan on Dec 31, 2021 9:09:53 GMT -5
Regarding Lady Titan forfeits: I was under impression that if teams could not produce seven healthy players and a minimum of one coach, then game would be considered “no contest” with attempts to replay at later date. If team had a minimum of seven players and one coach and chose not to play, then game would be a forfeit. So which is it with Lady Titans….if we don’t meet the minimum, then shouldn’t it be a no contest. And if we meet the minimum, why aren’t we playing? Did we ask for a postponement? And who’s requesting this….Coach or AD?
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Post by JDetroitTitan on Dec 31, 2021 10:15:12 GMT -5
Regarding Lady Titan forfeits: I was under impression that if teams could not produce seven healthy players and a minimum of one coach, then game would be considered “no contest” with attempts to replay at later date. If team had a minimum of seven players and one coach and chose not to play, then game would be a forfeit. So which is it with Lady Titans….if we don’t meet the minimum, then shouldn’t it be a no contest. And if we meet the minimum, why aren’t we playing? Did we ask for a postponement? And who’s requesting this….Coach or AD? I guess if it is cancelled with no postponement the season ticket holders will get refunded for those games.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Dec 31, 2021 10:31:33 GMT -5
Regarding Lady Titan forfeits: I was under impression that if teams could not produce seven healthy players and a minimum of one coach, then game would be considered “no contest” with attempts to replay at later date. If team had a minimum of seven players and one coach and chose not to play, then game would be a forfeit. So which is it with Lady Titans….if we don’t meet the minimum, then shouldn’t it be a no contest. And if we meet the minimum, why aren’t we playing? Did we ask for a postponement? And who’s requesting this….Coach or AD? I guess if it is cancelled with no postponement the season ticket holders will get refunded for those games. I received an email saying that unused tickets for the cancelled games could be used for any future contest.
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Post by ptctitan on Dec 31, 2021 11:16:00 GMT -5
Regarding Lady Titan forfeits: I was under impression that if teams could not produce seven healthy players and a minimum of one coach, then game would be considered “no contest” with attempts to replay at later date. If team had a minimum of seven players and one coach and chose not to play, then game would be a forfeit. So which is it with Lady Titans….if we don’t meet the minimum, then shouldn’t it be a no contest. And if we meet the minimum, why aren’t we playing? Did we ask for a postponement? And who’s requesting this….Coach or AD? No. It is a forfeit unless the Commissioner decides the circumstances fit an exception.
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Post by JDetroitTitan on Dec 31, 2021 11:17:04 GMT -5
I guess if it is cancelled with no postponement the season ticket holders will get refunded for those games. I received an email saying that unused tickets for the cancelled games could be used for any future contest. Uh? The people who have the tickets are season ticket holder correct? So they don't need tickets to other games unless you are offering transportation from Cali hall to another game I don't have tickets to. Which I don't thing the school will do and I don't blame them for not doing it. But I accept a refund. I have been a season ticket holder since I graduated from the university and the way this is being handled if this is true rogobob is going to make me not want to be a season ticket hold next year. I personally set time a side to make it to games even though it can be inconvenient at times (even this year). It is a principle thing to me. If you say you are going to do something you need to live up to what you do even if you failed. Sometime no matter what you do you might fail and have to accept the consequences of failure. I am sorry this happen but you need to own up to it and accept it. To me it is a cop out to not accept the responsibility. For example if I got sick and couldn't go to the game and had tickets I wouldn't of gone to the university and asked for my money back or to trade in my tickets to go to another game. I would of ate the cost and tried to give the tickets away(which I have done numerous times). For example the year we had the bad snow storm on the game against OU at OU I bought 10 courtside tickets early on that that season and because of the bad snow storm and living 1hr away (on good weather) I didn't end up going. I ate my ticket cost I didn't go to OU and ask to get my money back or to be able to go to another game because I failed to go. To me not see this out come as a possibility on the university's behave shows me the arrogant at the very top making these types of decision.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Dec 31, 2021 12:33:06 GMT -5
I received an email saying that unused tickets for the cancelled games could be used for any future contest. Uh? The people who have the tickets are season ticket holder correct? So they don't need tickets to other games unless you are offering transportation from Cali hall to another game I don't have tickets to. Which I don't thing the school will do and I don't blame them for not doing it. But I accept a refund. I have been a season ticket holder since I graduated from the university and the way this is being handled if this is true rogobob is going to make me not want to be a season ticket hold next year. I personally set time a side to make it to games even though it can be inconvenient at times (even this year). It is a principle thing to me. If you say you are going to do something you need to live up to what you do even if you failed. Sometime no matter what you do you might fail and have to accept the consequences of failure. I am sorry this happen but you need to own up to it and accept it. To me it is a cop out to not accept the responsibility. For example if I got sick and couldn't go to the game and had tickets I wouldn't of gone to the university and asked for my money back or to trade in my tickets to go to another game. I would of ate the cost and tried to give the tickets away(which I have done numerous times). For example the year we had the bad snow storm on the game against OU at OU I bought 10 courtside tickets early on that that season and because of the bad snow storm and living 1hr away (on good weather) I didn't end up going. I ate my ticket cost I didn't go to OU and ask to get my money back or to be able to go to another game because I failed to go. To me not see this out come as a possibility on the university's behave shows me the arrogant at the very top making these types of decision. My guess is that if you ask for a refund they would give you one. I’ve already offered my transferable tickets to friends who don’t typically come to Titans games, trying to do my small part to get some seats filled in Calihan as the season progresses. FWIW, I have been a partial season ticket subscriber for the Detroit Tigers over the years. When there are rainouts, I get an option for another game, no refund. That was the case even when the last game of the season was cancelled, an option for tickets for the following season, no refund. Somewhat unrelated, I watched some of the other Horizon games on ESPN+ last night, crowds were all very small.
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Post by uofdfan1983 on Dec 31, 2021 12:56:09 GMT -5
The idea of buying season ticket, JDetroitTitan, is making a donation to support the growth of the Program. I also sometimes get caught up in "this is the right way" arguments over nothing. But when it's my school, I consider my annual donation (which includes my season tickets) as my annual donation. Not as a tit-for-tat purchase of X number of seats in Calihan.
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Post by JDetroitTitan on Dec 31, 2021 15:33:48 GMT -5
Rogobob and uofdfan1983 I see your point of view and I am not in the same opinion (lets just say we agree to disagree). IF we had the bare minimum to play the games (I don't know if this is a fact or not) and the University decided to opt out of playing those games than the right thing to do is to refund the ticket and stand for what they believe is the right thing to do. But if the Horizon League (or NCAA) told the university they couldn't play because of the rules than I might be more understanding. But the university isn't coming out saying sorry we had to cancel the game we had x amount of players/coach with covid (or tested positive)therefore it has to be canceled. Instead the university want to hide and spin it (my feeling not trying to make a debate about it).
Covid is an airborne virus that is highly transmittable that means you cannot stop it(unless you can stop the wind) and it will need to run its course. I am very sorry to tell people if they haven't figured it out by now. I am also sorry to say people that probably don't deserve to die will die from this (I am sorry to hear your story Sam & Greg my experience has been a lot different with people dying but the only person I know personally that past away from Covid is my friend's 90+ year old grandma. At the same time my parents mid 70(one has an asmatic cough and over weight the other is diabetic) and my wife's grandmother 80+, my wife, me and a number of coworkers and friends got covid before vaccines were out and all dealt with it by taking are vitamin (family Doc told us to take vitamin (C 4000 mg ,Zinc 25mg and D 2000 IU) and said "that is all I can do for you and if your breathing levels get bad check into a hospital") (delta for most of us). We are all alive but it was very stressful time most of the people I mention were out for at least 10-14 days. Fast forward over a year and now I see another wave of friends and family getting covid. The group I see the most getting COVID now (people I know) I would say didn't go out last year, worked from home and is fully vaccinated with kids that are young (the kids may not be fully vaccinated I really don't know because I don't ask).
Two points is that it appear that with 60%+ vaccinated population this isn't going away (60% is the golden number for herd immunity) we are spiking in Michigan higher than when we didn't have the vaccine. To me the data shows two things so far. One it is getting weaker because less people are dying compared to the amount getting sick by the charts and the vaccine are not as effective with different mutations of the virus as we are lead to believe. We can all keep trying the same thing by closing down things making it harder for people to work and go on with there day to day. Then deal with the after affects of that. Which has so far appear to be wrecking are supply chain decrease are work force in the air, medical field, school teachers, ..ect. Created more problems in the future to fix to solve a problem in the present that hasn't made a really fix for yet. I really don't know what is the right way out of this problem is because I can't see the future. All I can do is tell people my experiences so you understand why I feel the way I do and respect it (don't have to agree with me. I do find out my answers sometimes aren't always right)
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Post by larrytitan on Dec 31, 2021 15:38:37 GMT -5
Not one of you approached the question I laid out. Why is it a forfeit? Are we able to play or do we not want to play? Forget the refunds.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Dec 31, 2021 16:02:40 GMT -5
I don’t really disagree with you jd, if people want a refund instead of a ticket exchange, I say the school should give them their money back. I think it is important to be as fan-friendly as possible, and would not want to lose the support of a longtime season ticket holder over a relatively small sum of money.
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Post by ptctitan on Dec 31, 2021 16:46:12 GMT -5
Not one of you approached the question I laid out. Why is it a forfeit? Are we able to play or do we not want to play? Forget the refunds. As I posted above, it's a forfeit because the HL's rules say that when a school cannot field the minimum number of players and coaches, it must forfeit the contest unless the league's Commissioner excuses it for extraordinary circumstances. The league has stated in the press releases posted here by hsscout1 that having breakthrough cases in vaccinated players is an extraordinary circumstance that will change the forfeit to a no-contest. That was in the press release about IUPUI and UIC. link to Detroit New storySo, the default position is a forfeit unless the school can prove the team incurred a lot of vaccine breakthrough cases that caused them to fall under the player and coach minimum. The men's team was able to prove to the league that its players and coaches were vaccinated and still tested positive for Covid. The implication of the HL Commissioner's statement in the article is that one or more of the Covid positive players or coaches on our women's team were not vaccinated. Therefore, on the men's side, we likely had at least 7 players test positive for Covid after Christmas. The same on the women's side but not everyone on that team who tested positive was vaccinated. The real unknown here is when the positive tests were conducted. If our players all tested positive within 10 days of the January 5th Oakland game, that game may end up being canceled or postponed because of the HL Commissioner's comment in the News article linked above.
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Post by larrytitan on Dec 31, 2021 18:40:49 GMT -5
Just what a winless team needs….forfeits due to unvaccinated players and/or coaches. Once again, I feel the AD has failed to be aware of everything going on.
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Post by ptctitan on Jan 1, 2022 5:56:18 GMT -5
larrytitan - The direct supervisor of our women's program is associate AD Teri Kromrei. It is her responsibility to make sure that all university and HL policies regarding Covid are implemented on the women's team. In fairness here, the HL only implemented its vaccine exception policy less than one week ago when it became clear that Omicron was surging. This happened when both IUPUI and UIC lost the majority of their men's players to positive Covid tests. (I'm not going to say they got sick.) This new exception was developed only because those two schools appealed the forfeit rule and argued that they should not have to forfeit these games because their players did everything to avoid the virus including getting vaccinated. That exception was announced publicly on December 29th. Until the 29th, the league rule was forfeit only. Yesterday, the HL canceled the women's game between OU and GB because OU could not field at least 7 players and a coach who did not test positive. Now, this is very interesting since OU's women played at and defeated Milwaukee two days ago. But the HL did not award GB another forfeit win under the vaccine breakthrough exception. Here's the announcementWhy do I think this exception policy makes no sense? Because Omicron can breakthrough the vaccines anyway. The best example of this is the team of 25 vaccinated Belgian scientists who all tested negative for Covid before leaving for Antarctica but then had a Covid outbreak at their isolated base there. It is comforting to know that Julie Roe Lach would not have ordered them to forfeit their mission if one of them was unvaccinated.
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Post by Rogobob77 on Jan 1, 2022 8:08:27 GMT -5
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